It’s Narcissist Friday!
I have received a couple questions recently about how a narcissist can change. There is a surprising lack of literature on methods of treatment for narcissism. Most books are written for family members, spouses, and others in relationships with narcissists; in other words, the victims. In fact, most books that even mention the idea of treatment say something like this quote I found in a clinical book specifically about narcissism: “Narcissistic disorders are prevalent and believed to be among the most difficult clinical problems to treat.” I find the combination of “prevalent” and “most difficult” to be concerning.
Does that mean there are a lot of narcissists out there and there is nothing anyone can do about them? It may seem that way, and that’s why most of the books are about how to deal with them, avoid them or recuperate from them. Most family counselors, pastoral therapists, etc. have never tried to treat a narcissist and most wouldn’t know where to begin. Fortunately, that seems to be balanced by the fact that so few narcissists believe anything is wrong with them. Their problems are easily blamed on others. Not many narcissists will ever come to a counselor for treatment.
The problem, in general, is that narcissism is usually a survival technique learned in early childhood through repetitive traumatic situations in which the child feels powerless, rejected, and valueless. The particular technique used is to deny the negative feelings and the negative self-appraisal and replace the perceived reality by a more positive and personally-designed substitute. Since the narcissist knows that the substitute is not real, he must continually reinforce it and reject any attempt to reveal the truth.
Now, if you understand the above paragraph, you see why narcissists are hard to treat and usually don’t seek treatment. Counselors who understand narcissism often find that the most reasonable types of treatment don’t work because the narcissists will not cooperate. They will not do homework, will reject the counselor’s assessments, or will lie to manipulate the exposure.
So what can a narcissist do if he really does want to change? He should find a good counselor, someone who has an understanding of and experience with narcissism. If he truly wants to change and isn’t playing a game, there are things that will help. The counselor will want to look at what happened so long ago and why the child chose that survival technique. The narcissist will find this process very difficult, but going through it will be the key.
Now, I have no fantasies about being able to cure a disorder the professional therapists find daunting. As a Christian, I believe the Lord can do anything, even cure a narcissist. I also believe that it would take a miracle from Him to accomplish forward progress and I would not hesitate to ask for one. I think a narcissist should go to the Lord, with the counselor if possible. In the presence of the Lord, the truth can be confronted.
Narcissists do not deal well with truth. Many victims note how easily the narcissist lies. These folks are the ultimate utilitarians; they use whatever it takes to accomplish their purposes. Truth, like a person, is just a tool to use. It has little meaning outside of its usefulness. If a falsehood will accomplish the purpose more effectively or even easier, it can be substituted without qualms.
But for the narcissist to progress away from the disorder, the truth will have to be confronted and accepted.
In the last two “Narcissist Friday” posts, I shared a couple stories that are difficult to read. Both of them elicit sympathy from the reader. My purpose was to show how deeply the wounds that led to the narcissism exist in the life of the narcissist. In order to progress, the narcissist will have to look honestly at the feelings he or she experienced during that time and find a new way to survive.
I believe that the love of Jesus Christ provides a different way of hope and life. The narcissist does not have to hide the reality of his pain and suffering. He can take those things to Jesus and find peace and acceptance.
Easy? Of course not! Who wants to go there again? But there is hope….
What do you think?
Grace for my Heart 
Hope. It can be awfully difficult to believe in.
Thank you for the beautiful post. It’s difficult, but good, to step back every once in a while and think about what made a narcissist what they are. It’s difficult to maintain empathy, and Lord knows we need it. =)
Very helpful, thank-you for posting this.
Isaiah 57:10
“For as the rain and the snow come down from heaven,
And do not return there without watering the earth
And making it bear and sprout,
And furnishing seed to the sower and bread to the eater;
11 So will My word be which goes forth from My mouth;
It will not return to Me empty,
Without accomplishing what I desire,
And without succeeding in the matter for which I sent it
Prayer and the Word help the narcissist more than anything. There are a lot of reasons why counseling is very difficult for the narcissist, even after he has accepted his condition and eagerly wants to change. The narcissist cannot help but struggle with paranoia and persecutory delusions – these woes engulf the narcissist soon as a he starts trusting or confiding in someone, like a counselor. Once that process starts, the narcissist begins to reinterpret everything that was said and discussed through the lens of his natural paranoia.
Those who lack empathy never can objectively or subjectively grasp the love others have for them. This is part of what makes the narcissist’s prognosis so bleak. But God can give a heart of flesh to any heart of stone.
Prayer is very very important for the narcissist. He should be praying, and the people around him should be praying for him. God knows how to deal with narcissists. Philippians 1:6 applies to narcissistic believers too.
The narcissist’s internal world is real life horror story. You just want him to be less paranoid of you so you can keep feeding him gospel truth. The cure for the narcissist is to have the Word of Christ dwelling richly inside him.
Only God can change a narcissist. But even if it were possible to get the narcissist to modify his behavior, it is all a waste if a) he has only learned how to avoid hurting others, while still dealing with the torment of his condition in secret or b) if it results in behavior modification only, without the narcissist ever getting saved or drawing nearer still to his creator if he is saved.
If I am focused on the worthiest and loftiest goal, growing in Christ’s likeness, I am happy and the people around me are happy. But if my mind is set on anything short of that, NPD is too formidable a foe for even the most sincere efforts will fall apart
“Only God can change a narcissist. But even if it were possible to get the narcissist to modify his behavior, it is all a waste if a) he has only learned how to avoid hurting others, while still dealing with the torment of his condition in secret or b) if it results in behavior modification only, without the narcissist ever getting saved or drawing nearer still to his creator if he is saved.”
I really appreciate your comments, but this statement presents a problem. While you are right that the narcissist is a person with need for a Savior and only the Savior can save him or her, it is certainly not “all a waste” if he learns to “avoid hurting others.” If a narcissist can learn to live without using and abusing others, he may find that those who love him will stay with him. I have communicated with many wives of narcissists and children of narcissists who sincerely want to help, but are constantly hurt and abused. They want their marriages to work and their families to be happy. They are willing to stay by, even with the pain, if there is hope of helping the narcissist.
The narcissist believes that others will reject him if he gives them a chance. He does not believe that love is possible, especially toward him. But these things are not true and if he could stop hurting the people in his life, he may find that there is great love available.
Again, I agree with all my heart that “behavior modification” is not enough. You are right on. But sometimes behavior modification is the first step to saving a relationship which could be a key to a real solution. I am not talking about law or standards. I am talking about not using others. This is why our culture throws the child molester in jail before trying to help him. I believe this is what Jesus calls us to do.
But we must never forget that the narcissist does need a Savior and Jesus offers the only real help, the only love powerful enough, to re-create a person.
There is much more to say. I care and I appreciate your willingness to comment.
You are absolutely correct.
Pastor & Romans 7:24, Kudos to both of you as you are both right. I am living in the chilly/tormentful/chaotic/devalued/expectant less/unsympathetic life with my wife who hits 9 out 10 narcissistic behaviors. We have been to 3 marriage counselors, 1 pastor, and I had our new pastor visit to talk with her (why did I bother, she told him she’s such a good christian she got saved and Baptized twice). In short I’ve been run out of my house numerous times, slept on sofas in hotels, slept in my van, slept in cheap motes on my birthday, slept on the side of the road, walked the streets of Vegas at 3am (on my wedding day!) all for this women. I have come to terms that this is where God found me, this is where I turned my eyes upon Jesus and repented of my sinful ways and was restored to a right standing and found the Grace of God because of this hellish tormentor of a wife. I am not asking for pity I’ve vexed my own soul on earth when I turned my back on God and walked away from the family and children God delivered to me and sought Baal (the love of the world). God never promised me a rose garden on earth; I figure if I patiently endure, if I bear up with Jesus Grace for another 20-30 years, I’ll find my solace in Glory. I am committed to this women,I’ve told her I’ve stopped running; I stand with Jesus to rescue her soul even if it takes the rest of my life. I now know for all her verbal abuse she is a 2 year scared child that God desperately wants to heal, just like me. I have no illusions that God will bring a lighting bolt down and strike her sane and saved tomorrow but on the flip side God has carefully guided me through his stern correction for my former wayward life and I’m the recipient of Joy Unspeakable that God would intervene and put me through this fire and correct my heart and mind toward Christ Jesus. So you see a sinner came home and God will overcome my wife’s tormented soul when she allows herself the chance to look up and see Jesus. Until that day “We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” Pray for your Brother John as I seek courage/Grace each day to patiently endure to the end either I win (die and go to heaven) or God saves my wife’s soul with definite fruits of the Spirit!
Thanks for sharing this.. this has blessed my soul.
Wow, thanks for sharing. This blessed my soul immensely also. I’ve just started learning about this because of a 2 yr. relationship I’ve been in with a girl I see with so many of these characteristics. I’m horrified by what I’ve seen and heard, know that it’s the work of demons, will not permit it and allow the abuse, BUT do love her so and want to see her healed and whole. I don’t want to have to do “No Contact” or “Gray Stone” but won’t be played by evil.
You’re testimony of faithfulness, commitment, loyalty and the love of Jesus Christ is AWESOME! GOD bless you Brother John and give you strength and peace and JOY to continue to endure. And may He break EVERY chain of darkness on your wife for her FREEDOM and HEALING in JESUS’ name!
Amen, well written, thank you. I to in simular situation. I keep God close to me and know he can do all things..God Bless you…
Thank you John,
This post has just helped me to make a very difficult decision regarding my 26 yr relationship with my husband who suffers with NPD. I say suffer because I truly believe if he could change on his own accord he would. He is himself a victim of such evil, I have witnessed his pain, depression, addictions and torment, but the demons that control him are so strong that he seems unable to help himself. I left him about 18 months ago and during this separation and my own pain I found God. At first I dealt with a lot of anger towards him due to his infidelity, lies, addictions and manipulation. But after many, many months of crying out to Jesus for help, lots of prayer and meditation about how I should be and respond to his treatment of me and his family I feel he is answering my prayers. I think through your post that messaged has just been given.
All the text books, blogs and forums say go no contact. I have followed every bit of advise out there, but nothing has helped me other than my personnel relationship with God. I married my husband for Better or Worse, Richer or Poorer, in Sickness and in Health. I feel God has taught me so many things through this relationship, changed me in many ways about the world, people and our treatment of each other. I know we are to love our enemy and like you I will never give up trying to show him love, how to receive love and to trust in the Lord, My one fear is that he will not be saved. I know he has free will, but like any ill person I feel it my duty as his wife and a Christian woman to not give in to the enemy. I am strong now, much more than ever before. I’m not saying I will go running back to him right away, if we are ever to be reconsiled and if it is Gods will it will be done. But I’m not the same person who left 18 mths ago. The holy spirit is indwelt within me and I now know I’m not in this on my own. So I will not abandon him and I will trust in the Lord with all my heart and not lean on my own understanding. I will always treat him with love and kindness and let him know I will always be his friend.
Thank you John for helping me to make sense of some things that have been tormenting me! I wish you all the very best with your wife and her journey. I truly hope that God is able to not only changes her heart, but through prayer so many other suffers of this monstrous disease.
Wow, I am moved by your reasoning …I have been married for 15 yrs and its been a roller coaster ride.I want to get off so bad but I feel Christ’s love through me wants to stay and help him find the way. He claims to be a believer but I see no fruits in him and I’m not sure if it’s possible. He is in denial about being narcissistic. I also have been in denial. I always want to see the best in everyone. I have been waiting for 15 years for that charming man that won me over to come back. He only comes out to impress others but never behind closed doors. He says very hurtful and degrading things to me. And to top all this off I was just diagnosed with breast cancer and had to leave my job so I cannot leave this relationship but it is causing so much stress on me and I am afraid my cancer may come back if I stay here. He recently told me he wasn’t in love with me anymore ….I can’t stop crying, I find myself so stressed out not knowing what to do. My heart is broken because I know I cannot change my husband, God knows I’ve tried. I want to believe that there is hope for them and that God can change their heart. I don’t want to lose my husband when I go to the other side. I know deep down he’s a good person but I also know that he was broken as a child. So I have stayed by his side for 15 years. And we have a child who is 10 years old. I stress over not knowing whether to leave or go, and which would be best from my child. Please pray for me that I can make the right decisions and that God will give me wisdom. Thank you and God bless
God can change his heart and will, if you stand on God’s word and pray without ceasing for your husband. I’m married to a narcissist, and tried to leave him several times early in our marriage, but God convicted me every time so I ended up staying. Now I’m standing in the gap for my husband’s soul, which were part of the wedding vows. God has blessed me beyond measure, too much to tell here. Ive seen God do wonders with my husband, and I can see the battle raging in my husband’s heart and mind. But God says we are victorious through Jesus and to stand firm. Our labors in Him are not in vain 1Cor 15:57-58. Ask God for wisdom specifically pertaining to your situation, ask Him to deal with your husband, and keep your eyes on Jesus. He will put you and your marriage on the right path.
Wow John,
I am in the same place. I am the wife and my husband is the narcissus. I feel the Father moving me to stay.
I believe how much I can apply what you said to my own life. I have been with a narcissist man for 5 years I feel too God called me near to him thru the treatment I received from this man. I called to God thru all my sorrows and he delivered me Everytime. My story is a bit different this man is physically abusive I am at the point where I had to put him in jail and he seems to feel no remorse for what he did to me. I even had accepted he may take my life and I will go to heaven I was saved on a special day that I know it’s date. I don’t know if this is right way of thinking but now he is in jail I realize I need to pray for him more than ever constantly without ceasing for his soul. I love him so much I want him to change if not for me for his next partner. Our relationship has beem chaotic all my family and his have distances themselves from him amd I don’t know whether to do it to so he has no one and falls to God I pray or to be the last one standing i pity how no one is supportive of him. He realized he is a narcissist and has asked for counseling and we have been to 3 pastors and 2 counselors in this 5years. I received bad treatment on special occasions just as you did I bear a bite mark on my arm on my birthday 2 years ago. I wander does God have something to teach me using him as example or am I nuts to want to be committed to someone is is untreatable to many people.
I believe this describes my eldest son, He is well educated, and traveled he take great pride in his accomplishments, the sad part, is to win an discussion or a debate lets say he resorts to finding the weakest link and try to disable the person with a character attack, not sticking to the topic, He then brags off himself and how you who are beneath him, can not possibly be right. He is in his late forties now, and I can no longer communicate with him, because if its not me he trying to do this with it will be one off my brothers etc. Yes I am a Christian and for sure he is being prayed for.
How do you bring a narcissist to God? The one I know and love, never loved anyone but himself. He says that teaching faith in God is abuse.
With all this said he is suffering tremendously. He is an adult male in his mid-forties and cries daily.
There is no question that he used others without any shame (he used me, of course). NOTHING and nobody exists for him but himself. He does not care to contribute to the expenses of the household, he does not care to help in the household, he does not even care to get up in the morning. He gets up at 4 p.m. in the afternoon and stays up in the night to work, suffers from insomnia.
How should we start to help him. – I keep him in my prayers.
Everybody knows that God exists, Romans 1:18-22. The narcissist simply rejects this. The unsaved narcissist needs to know that God is real, and that if anything we exist in God’s imagination, not vice versa, and that he is going to hell if he does not repent of his sins and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. This man is an unbeliever and if he died tomorrow he would go straight to hell for eternity. He needs to hear that piece of information plain and simple. Then if he persists in his unbelief and wakes up in hell one day, you can know that he won’t be saying there was something more you could have said.
The narcissist does need to know that God loves him. Testify to this as best you know how. But the narcissist also needs to know that God is just and God will punish sin. He needs to see that he is a sinner and that his unbelief will certainly condemn him to hell unless he repents of it. The truth about hell can cut the heart of even the most hardened narcissist. Narcissists are creatures who always act in their own self interest. He is on the brink of eternity and it is definitely in his self interest that he does not spend it in the lake of fire.
Narcissists always see things in black and white. No Jesus = Lake of Fire. Share the gospel with him as best you know how, but definitely do not leave out the fact that he’ll end up in hell if he doesn’t believe it.
If you only tell the narcissist about God’s love, you are leaving out the fact that God hates sin and will punish sin, you are not telling him the whole gospel, and the narcissist will simply brush it aside or view God as another source of getting what he wants. He needs to see that God is more powerful than him, and that God will NOT be manipulated into letting him into heaven, he will not be able to talk his way out of hell on judgement day, and this is a biggish realization for a narcissist
Then the narcissist will suddenly value Christ as the one mediator between himself and God, the only Man standing between him and hell. Hopefully. The narcissist only cares about what he needs. Show him he needs the benefits of Christ’s finished work on the cross. Let God do the rest
And don’t forget to tell him about God’s love either
I completely agree with this post. But now I am out of the relationship yet heartbroken to think that under neath all his own personal torture that he can be brought to the Lord and be saved. I fear that if I address the sick things I have found out r about him that may put me in danger. So I beg of everyone to pray and continue to pray for him and for all of these loved ones that hurt us. I cannot believe that they really want to be like this. Even tho it is their only reality it is still torturous to them.
I’m confused here, my ex-N is “a believer” knows the bible, can quote scriptures in a heart beat, know when, how and where to quote scriptures. Like I have stated in past posts he is a leader in a recovery ministry. Manipulated the leaders in the church as well as in the recovery ministry. One leader said he did not need counseling. The recovery ministry is all he needs and this conversation did not take place in the name of the recover ministry not Jesus! The N told me he was a surrogate husband for his mom. I’m thinking he was maybe three at the time. He said he had to listen to things about his mom’s relationship that no child should here. I told him he needed to talk to someone about it and he shut down. He has learned to deal with his pain by fight, flight or freeze method, those who are counselors know what I am talking about. So he knows about God, Jesus but absouletly refuses to accept him in his heart and have him speak through the lies. I told him that, it just went in one ear and out the other. He instead is using Jesus to gain energy from others and when he does his testimony he convinces himself and others that he is changing, while the leaders enable his behaviors b/c they are controlled by him. I personally believe he needs to hit rock bottom and then have people lay hands on him to cast out the evil spirits in them! Satan’s lies and deceptions has penetrated deep within their souls that a cleansing of any evil spirit has to come out of them and then counseling can begin. After all we are all in a spiritual warfare!
What about the narcissist that not only believes that God is “an imaginary excuse for people who are too weak to be in control of their lives” but doesn’t believe in heaven or hell? My boyfriend has been doing research trying to find out why he is living such a miserable life and has recently figured out that he is a narcissistic perfectionist and both of his parents are definitely narcissists. He want so bad to feel and empathize, love and care about things. He’s driven himself crazy over the past two weeks trying to find ways to do this or trying to find someone that can help him do this. He wants so bad to be healed. He’s the type of person who has to have a reason for everything and faith is not a good enough reason according to him. Any suggestions?
Mary Kay, I am no expert on anything, but I have seen people who think/believe they are narcissists really aren’t, their spirit or heart might have had to become dormant and stay in hiding for the sake of self defense. When you have learned a certain way to live, you have to start all over again to learn a new way to live and be. Almost like a feral animal, trust, compassion, patience etc are all either forgotten or always questioned to ascertain if they are even valid. The people I know started from the beginning, imitating kindness, not just in public, but always. “Act as though you had faith, and faith will be given unto you”.Act as though you were loving/compassionate etc, and these things will become a part of you in time and diligent practice, until it becomes second nature. When you see people give little gifts, then you give little gifts etc, Learn kind words. Make the painful list of what you are missing ie self confidence, self worth, and give those to others in your words and actions. Rejoice in others’ success, build others up, and you will see yourself being built up. The Bible tells us that when we are dead to self is when there is room for God, so if we don’t “get” the whole Christian thing, just act like it, not that we are fooling anyone, especially not God Himself, but we just become more acquainted with what it is like so it isn’t so strange and terrifying. If your boyfriend is serious, then there is room for help, and your prayers will find fertile soil. Like all of us he will fall, but if he is serious, he will get up again, make amends and keep walking. Perfectionism is a tough one, but the fear of failing is worse than actually failing, as when you do blow it, you find out nothing really changed, you still get hungry, tired, still have to feed and walk the dog, shower, etc. Life goes on, and you see nobody (except narcissists) really even noticed or cared that your socks don’t match. If anything they are relieved that you are a normal person just like them. Let go of self, live to love, and love to live. Then one day he will see that Jesus is easy to get to know and will be his completeness.
BEAUTIFUL. That’s it EXACTLY. God WILL NOT allow a narcissist into Heaven. I am an ex-narcissist, and fear of being tortured and then burning in the Lake of Fire scared me so much that I cried out to God for help. Now I KNOW in my heart (not just in my mind) that God loved me so much that He gave His only Son to die on a cross for my sins. I am real, now, because my identity is in Christ. A narcissist has no identity. His sense of identity comes from the people around him. ONLY when he is CENTERED on and in the Person of Christ does he gain the one, true identity—the identity that allows him to be fulfilled and to give out love to others. Even those people who do not have a debilitating, harmful personality disorder are unbalanced and neurotic in some ways, because they are not standing on the Truth of the Rock.
Eva, I am just leaving on a trip and won’t be posting for a while. I may be able to respond to comments along the way, but only maybe. I just want you to know that I am praying for you and for your husband. It is obvious that he needs some quality help, but I know that’s hard for a narcissist to do and even then it only sometimes helps. Let’s pray that GOd will get to him, even though he isn’t interested in getting to God. I believe that God initiates relationships. The ride may be bumpy, but probably not worse than you have now.
I will continue to pray for you and will write more later.
Dave
And if he is going through difficult times, encourage him with Biblical accounts such as Job, and Joseph, and the stuff on God’s discipline in Hebrews 12 and Proverbs 3, Isaiah 57:15-21. Perhaps God is using these trials to draw him to Himself. Either way he needs the Bible and he needs to know how important it is for him to avoid the lake of fire. God will do the rest.
My comments may have been a little harsh, but consequences of unbelief are harsh too, I am actually a narcissist, and I have also witnessed to a narcissist who I am very close to, who is starting to show signs of saving faith. The need for salvation is more important than anything else, but I do want to encourage you that change is possible, although the battle with the flesh is very hard for a narcissist.
I was probably a lot worse than your husband, but when I read John 3:3, I realized I needed to be born again, and if I was not born again I would certainly go to hell.
I truly believe fear and shame underlie most of what the narcissist does. I needed to fear God, the fear of God is what changed my life, and that is the beginning of wisdom, genuine faith makes a person see their need for salvation, and produces a Matthew 5:3 attitude, and Jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit. That is a very encouraging verse to the narcissist but he needs to come to grips with his spiritual condition.
I truly believe it is far more important for a narcissist to come to grips with his spiritual condition than it is for him to come to grips with his psychological condition. There is no one who really believes that narcissism can be cured apart from God’s direct intervention. The narcissist unbeliever is the same as any other unbeliever, unsaved and enslaved to sin, He needs to come into the victory Christ obtained for us on the cross, faith in Jesus results in changed lives
I know 1 Peter 3:1 tells wives how to deal with their unbelieving husbands. I am definitely not qualified to say how you apply that truth to your particular situation though. I just wanted to say that change is possible, but it needs to come through a change in their spiritual condition, that is their deepest need, to be saved and regenerated by the Holy Spirit.
Thank you so much. My husband is a narcissist and doesn’t know it. I’ve tried everything to save my marriage. The only thing I can do now is trust God will change his heart. Your words give me hope
Thank you for this post – i know it was almost 5 years ago, and I pray that you are still walking with God. I am on this sight because I have googled “can a narcissist be saved” and pretty much it says no, which blows my mind….drug addicts, murderers, thieves, adulters, they all can find God, why can’t a narcissist? I am just coming out of a 2 year narc relationship – it was the worst experience of my life, I got sucked in as a christian, I know that is why I was a great target for him. Every time I broke up “for good” (probably 70xs) I would come home and on my face first ask God to forgive me and then cry out for him – I did not know what was going on . I was convicted of what I was doing with him and how I allowed him to lie and manipulate me. Not one of my friends or family members understood why i kept going back for more pain, I didn’t either. Here’s the thing – God did not release me – I prayed and prayed to just make the feelings stop, let him stop hunting or now that I know was “hoovering”….it didn’t stop. The last time I saw him (60 days this week no contact()it was disgusting – that’s all I can say – I came home and all I wanted was closer – so another email was sent and ignored – I was going nuts – I finally did some google search and there it was information on what a narc psychopath was and I was reading what he was and that I was in an abusive relationship. I just thought he was not saved – but he is seriously sick. BUT here is the the strange analogy of this – he goes to a spirit filled church – he goes on Sundays to take his mom, he said he would not go if he didn’t’ need to take her. I never went with him, he did ask me, but there was no way I was going to church with him after spending a weekend in sin, I know that I was already a hypocrite- I was curious about his church and started looking at message on line – and was like oh my word, how could he sit there and not be moved. The place he goes to is the real deal – my heart aches that the word and spirit does not penetrate into his heart. I know he is sick – now….and the only answer as to why in the world I met this man and this happened is maybe I am the only one that is praying for him. I have to take my eyes off of what he did to me and the pain that I have been in. I was married for 25 years and shortly after I got divorced he committed suicide – looking back on that – I don’t believe anyone was praying for him, I know I wasn’t. I do not want him saved because of some fantasy of us being happily ever after. Like the posts say here – we are talking about a life going to live in hell eternally – that tears my heart more than anything – did I turn him further away from God? I pray not. I hope somehow I showed Jesus to him – even with all my faults and failures. I will continue the no contact for my healing. But if ever came to me for his own healing, I would be there for him, as I would anyone else.
The narcissist is an insecure,scared, child who builds a castle of pride around their fragile egos. However, they quickly learn that attack is the best form of defense and become skilled bullies, turning their sheilds into weapons and slowly acquiring a taste for power and adulation. Before long,their lies,rants and unpleasantness becomes their true nature and they retreat further and further into their own grandiose thoughts and beliefs. Old habits die hardest and by now the narcissist has lost his way back to reality and truth and is now trapped by their own persona. What was once a safe haven is now their prison. Until the reject the drug of pride and self-love, they will remain outside of God’s will and the love of others.
Wow. What an excellent synopsis.
Ditto! An excellent description.
This is really making me feel better
I can read and read for days.
Dear Hugh, I am very sorry to read what you have to say about the hopelessness of the person with NPD. At least the last line seems to show that you hold out some tiny ray of hope for someone with NPD. However, someone with NPD cannot by himself “reject” NPD. He can only be extricated from it by giving God His rightful place on the throne of his heart. I was a narcissist for sixty plus years, and am free of it now because I believe with all my heart that God sent His only Son to die on the cross so as to atone for my—yes, even my—sins. Now that I have Him in my heart, I have the security that allows me to cease feeding off other people’s lives, and to feed on the Bread of Life. Please, everyone, do not continue to spread the falsehood that narcissists can never change. I do not at all mean to make light of the hurt and even near-destruction of the many people who have had relationships with them. I do not at all disagree with the advice to RUN AWAY from an NPD. Just please do not write things that crush any hope an NPD may have that he can be free from the disease. I believe there are many NPD’s who go looking for hope, but who find nothing but hatred and hopelessness for their very painful problem, I repeat: I am not suggesting that anyone who has been maimed by someone with NPD to say, “Awww, the poor thing…” Just please know that there are those with the disorder who truly want to change. I will also repeat that I believe the ONLY way for someone with NPD to change is realize, and to believe in, a Being Who is a Power higher than himself, and Who loves him with an unfathomable and everlasting love. A Someone Who can forgive all his sins, no matter what they are, and can change his heart forever.
I am new to this blog and have escaped a very scary situation after a short 2 yr 10 mth second marriage. I got safe through a flood at home and my adult children seeing the reality and helping me get free. That was two years ago. Last year I agreed to counselling and ended it one yr ago after I saw clearly he was again using and abusing me me for his own gain. I divorced him in Feb 2012. The sad thing for me was that this Narc, and many like him actually use the church to build their reputation, clinging to certain “reputable people” to gain his own reputation. I truly believed he was a Godly man and would be a spiritual leader in our home. How wrong I was. After a whirlwind relationship we married….. Married by his bestie who was a respected pastor …. Must be ok then? Within two months the tables turned and this “lovely” Christian man became abusive. He was like Jekyll and Hyde. The manipulation was perfect and my heart and spirit gradually became crushed. he did every form of abuse and began excluding me from friends and even church. I was shocked how this could have happened. I am a Christian, have bee all of my life and I’m also a Psychologist who has worked with victims…. Including sexual assault. My sanity has been saved by God teaching me how this can happen. That has been through websites like this and books and doing training in Domestic Violence through work. I now know that Narcs target people like me. Not because I’m dumb or weak but because a Narc targets an empath. I now value who I am and this is what he set out to control and thereby destroy. My beautiful and loyal Father would not let that happen and set me free. I now am going to use my knowledge to help others as God reveals how. This is already happening. I wanted to comment tHough that Pastors and leaders need to get real about this. I have had to leave my Church because none of the leaders will deal with this Narc and live by Grace. The senior Pastor and other leaders believed I could sit in the same small church with the Narc nearby and worship, love and forgive. It was so painful for me NOT HIM!! When my brother died his Bestie Pastor took it upon himself to inform my divorced ex. Then Narc contacted me in my vulnerability and I got sucked in with his care. Very soon I realised and sent a no contact message. I am thankful that we had no children. One day I will write my own book. I just want to warn about the use of Christianity. The Narc is an expert at manipulating the believers. I should not have had to leave my Church to survive. I did. I phoned to make an appointment with the Senior Pastor to discuss leaving. 9 weeks ago….. No appt was given. That showed me I was right to leave. I have now found anotHer place to worship but was witHout a Family for five months. These Narcs keep winning even though we leave. I hope for His healing but not for me. I truly don’t ever want to see him again. You see I found out after I left that he has used the church to get women before and I wasn’t alone in the abuse factor. Three abusive marriages, abuse of children, AVOS , gun charges, sexual, physical, spiritual, emotional, psychological. I DIDN’T KNOW. Everyone collides in the cover up, the lies, the deception. Oh he must be changed as it is ten years since he was married!! No change. Sad. Yes I believe only God can do tHis as he lied to the counsellors. Gods knows He uses the church and hHis name to do his evil work. I have no feelings for him now as he truly is IN HIS HANDS.
Meant to be “colludes” not collides. Meant to say …. Only God can do any real healing.
THANK YOU, AND GOD BLESS YOU, Annie. That is what I said in my previous post. Someone who seriously hurts others should not be excused because “he had a difficult childhood.” No one who is in a horrific, intractable relationship with a narcissist has any obligation stick around and allow her or himself to be hurt further. Sharing the hurt, the anger and the humiliation can provide some healing for the soul. But there are NPD’s who are hurting, who know something is very wrong—who want to find out what it is, and who want to change. So thank you again for that last line. I would say this: Do NOT suppose you can change them yourself. Protect yourself from them. But if you can, pray that God can heal them.
Annie, I just read your posting (glad they remain available so long). I am in the throes of a similar story, seeking God’s guidance for the immediate days ahead. I would appreciate your input. Could you email me?
Judy
Me too. Help.
Yes this is what i have been going through for the past 8yrs. I am destroyed and we have a 2.5yr old. We are both Christians and yet to him it only means being able to use it as another cover up tool. It has taken years for me to finally put all the pieces of the puzzle together and finally put a name to this. No other councelor or pastor could do it because oh he seems to sincere and knows all the right words and emotions to say and express. Yes has pple sucked in. Not every one though. My family and friends have seen him in desperate moments and well any one who spend enough time around him could pick up on it but other than that most pple are fooled. Your right, it is the victim who is left tormented and broken while the narc walks away in tact. Despite the fact that in reality he is in torment, he is able to move on to his next vice to feed his need and ego. I wanted so much to help him but as others say he is in most part denial and above help. I finally realize that just because he is my husband that does not mean that God wants my and our daughter to be abused and torn down only to serve a man who is not God. I read so many books on Christian marriage, submission and respect. I applied it and i thought i had the key to make it work. I didn’t realize back then that i was actually fueling his illness. It enabled him to indulge in his created reality. He does need Jesus whether he is already saved or not, until he surrenders to God and realizes that He is the one in control, i believe there is no hope. All i can do is protect myself and love him from a distance. Pray for him non ceasing. I love him and want him well again, to be free from this stronghold of pure evil.
Amen..
Exactly!! God doesn’t want us being abused. God doesn’t abuse us so why would he want us to be with somebody that abuses us.
Protect yourself and love and pray from a distance because staying is enabling him to continue in his abuse and it encourages his behavior.
Staying in these abusive relationships is not Gods will. You are being abused and encouraging the abuse.
God is clear about not entertaining evil or a fool. God tells us to be wise. Ecclesiastes 8:11.
Actually I thought the word “collides” worked pretty good too, that is about how it happens. It is shocking to see how easily people get sucked in. There seems to be no end to the narcs tricks and games, and no end of people willing to believe at face value and falling at their feet. We were taught to be trusting, taught to be nice, taught not to judge. Christians shouldn’t judge. Well, that sure got turned around to meaning “let it all go, accept everything and everybody.” Yet when I read the Bible, I don’t see that at all. There are countless scriptures about seeing and assessing and turning away from. Scriptures about wisdom, and judging the spirits, and fools and liars, and coming out from among them and on and on. I was taught that you can tell “these people” from a mile away. But the truth is often the opposite. The devil is a lot smarter than to have his traps look like traps, complete with neon warning signs and a list of juicy bait to watch out for.
…a friend of mine is battling mice in her house- we talk about how to get them, have you tired this? What about that? I heard this works, and sometimes that works, someone told me about this, and I read about that. In other words, the mice WILL be eliminated. There is a way, and that way WILL be found. The option of just getting used to them is NOT an option. It struck me how similar the relentless mind of a narcissist works…and how relentless we need to be in never giving up hope.
(I am preaching to myself here)
These posts break my heart at the same time as they relieve that feeling of being alone in this hellish mess. May God set the captives free, free in body, free in mind, heart and spirit. May He give each of us His wisdom, and strength when we have none of our own, may His love and joy and peace surround us like a shield from the enemies of our souls.
Dave, you are right that narcissists are very black and white thinkers. That certainly applies to my husband. He was/is a very radical person. We have been married for 15 years and he’d become progressively more emotionally abusive over time. Last fall I created some boundaries, which forced him into treatment. There they agreed with my suggestion of narcissism but focused on the labels of alcoholic, rage-oholic and control-oholic with an intimacy disorder. He was treated for 6 weeks (they recommended 12 but we couldn’t afford that). They focused on helping him go back to deal with the rejection and shame he had experienced as a child and worked to help him really feel his feelings. Then, the idea is that if he can come to grips with his own shame, guilt, hurt, sadness and anger then he could potentially become aware of those feelings in others. I think if anything is going to work for these people, it is this type of therapy. He has been attending AA since returning 3 months ago. He isn’t living at home with me and our four children but does visit regularly. I still see glimpses of the “old person” coming through in his reactions to things I say and do but I have to admit that it does appear that he may be changing. His awareness has increased. Time will have to tell. And I’ve seen his “changes” before so I’m not holding my breath. I also don’t know that his changing would be enough to save our marriage. I still am so hurt and angry that I don’t think I could ever trust him enough to have a healthy, intimate marriage relationship. But I am trying to trust God and the process and see where it leads. At the very least, I hope that he might have improved relationships in his life (children, other family members, friends, coworkers). It’s scary though, going through all the turmoil of the abuse and drama and feeling trapped and then having him actually go through treatment and then feeling trapped again in a sense because I fear that he will change just enough so that a divorce is no longer Biblically justified. I am just trying to take things one day at a time, focusing on my own growth and change and relationship with the Lord, as well as my children’s wellbeing.
JCD,
If you have read some of my later blog posts, you will see that I think Ns can adapt their behavior. That means to me that they can learn to be kind and giving and attentive to others. It has to be a priority for them and it may be artificial at first, but I really think there are some who decide they don’t want to lose what they have and are willing to adapt.
That doesn’t mean they have really changed, I suppose. The old scars will still betray them. They will still react in the old ways, especially if they haven’t gone back to deal with their pain and fear. It sounds like the counseling might have gotten a little too close and the money was a helpful excuse. That would be very common. Almost all counselors who deal with narcissists will have them for a very short time. Just look under that one rock and they run. Exposure is what they fear the most.
I hope you are getting some counseling to restore your health. If he is ever to come back, you will need to be in good emotional and spiritual health (and physical!) You will have to set and maintain boundaries. If he breaks one, sirens and flashing lights should go off to call attention to it. Otherwise he will naturally assume his old ways and you will slip away again. A good counselor can help you establish those boundaries.
Of course, I don’t know what he did. You may never want him back. I know that several of my regular readers would think you should stay far away. Once you have escaped, you don’t want to go back, they would say. That might be good advice and you should think and pray a lot. In the meantime, don’t compromise. Hold him to any agreements. Set boundaries for his visits or any connection with you or the kids. He is responsible for anything he suffers.
You are welcome to communicate with me privately through the contact page link. I will be praying for you.
Dear graceformyheart, yes, NPD’s can change to some degree, and drug addicts can stop using drugs. It is a good thing if they can come to a point of doing less harm to others or to themselves. But only the 180 degree, permanent turn onto the path of God can heal them completely, in my opinion. God bless you.
Hi Dave,
I have read all your Friday posts. : ) It does seem that they can adapt their behavior, especially when they really don’t want to lose what they have. Of course, I’d much rather have actual, from the heart empathy than a regurgitation of something someone else is coaching them to say (as is the case in our couples’ counseling sessions).
Perhaps there was some avoidance on his part of deeper/longer therapy. I do have to say that before going to the treatment center he had to ask friends for the $22,000 to pay for it. Lots of people seem to think that that suggests that he is really committed to the prospect of getting well. Or it may just mean that he’s really good at squeezing people for things and jumping through the necessary hoops to look like he’s doing the right thing.
I am definitely receiving individual counseling. That is what started me on the road to greater strength and personal growth. It is the thing that helped me to form those early boundaries that forced him into counseling. I am grateful for it. I am also working my own program of recovery which is allowing me to do deeper work and to see my own areas that need addressing and healing.
Even if there is legitimate change, I don’t know that it will be enough. It may be “too little too late”. Right now it feels as though I could never trust my heart to him. I have to trust that feeling. I’ve spent too many years not trusting my feelings and I’m relearning how to do that.
I know that there are many who would think me foolish for even giving him the time of day. Believe me, there is enough pain and anger there for me to not want him at all. But I’m also not in a position to make a quick decision. The situation is complicated and there is no simple solution. I am working toward some goals and the relative peace that I am experiencing with him not here is giving me the opportunity to have some clarity and make some progress.
Thank you for your thoughtful response and for your prayers.
If you have learned anything from all of this, it is that you must stay true to yourself. If you are not ready to be done with him, then just do what you need to do. It is easy for someone from the outside to tell you what you should do, but you have to live with your decisions. Trust that the Lord will lead you. Just know that you can do what you want and what you need. I am glad that you are getting good counseling. Become healthy, whatever it takes. I am praying for you.
Yes, I am determined to grow and achieve greater emotional health. That was definitely something I used to minimize in importance. Never again! Grace and peace to you.
JCD you are where i currently am. I receive personal counseling and learning to stop doubting my gut instincts and basically i get told to leave leave leave him! We have been separated for 9mths now. Not the first separation but definitely the longest. I was just about to give him another chance but after praying about trusting him i found out some very hurtful facts and more secrets. I came to this blog and also read narcissist revisited. Broke me and i felt there was no hope for him. Yes he has been to counseling as a means to get me back etc but when he was sent to a really good psychologist which is was ordered to see by DOCS he ran. The guy could see right through him. Money and work hours became the reason he could no longer go. He is now seeing an inexperienced trainee female counselor whom he chose and according to her treatment is going really well and she believes we should work things out. Oh also does not believe he a narcissist just may have a couple of tendencies like most people! I felt angered. I wasn’t in the sessions with him but i was annoyed that she was even encouraging him to have hope. It is so unfair for us, the victims. I feel as you do JCD that i could never believe that anything is really the truth and in my heart i would always doubt. It’s the worst feeling. He also visits regularly to see us and i see the old him come through despite his cover ups. I feel i have wasted all those years trying to be the good wife, blaming myself etc. I did pull him up on his behaviors but as you know there is an answer and reason for everything and it’s rather pointless trying to invoke true feelings of repentance in them. We can’t do that, only God can. That brings me to another point, it scares me how someone can use God to get what they want with no fear or concern. My husband really does think he is above God. Well the persona does anyway. I don’t know what to do. Regret ever meeting this man and although i want to have hope, i could never trust him again. What would be the point unless we were going to have a superficial relationship. Thank you for posting because it does help me to know that i am not alone in what i have experienced. It is hard to find someone who can understand the hell we live with these people.
Dear JCD, regarding spouses of those with NPD, that is most often not easy to “just run.” I apologize to all for my thoughtlessness about that. There are things like income, housing, children and other factors that can very much get in the way of just taking off and not looking back. That approach works for those who are dating someone and who discover he, or she, has NPD. For those married to one, one alternative response to unacceptable behavior can be to call the police. Various legal actions, such as an order of protection, or a little time spent in jail, can sometimes help someone with NPD to begin to question their behavior. Taking such action can allow a woman to continue to occupy her home, and to continue to have a regular source of income. I recently read a post on another site in which a woman said her NPD husband threw a box of dishes at her. That constitutes intent to do bodily harm, and would be reason enough to call the police. I apologize if any of what I have said in this post is naive or off base.
I am married to a narcassist been with him for 13 yrs the first 8 were beautiful as far as im concerned. And the traits have worsened and we are on very rocky ground right now.. And i do not want to divorce him at all. Tho hes gone now i want him back very much. I am still so deeply in love with him and tho the gerbal mental and emoyional abuse hurts me badly i have a few of my own disorders. I dont want to throw any of it away. Tho he can be very cruel like shockingly cruel.. I dont always react properly but i give him a taste of his own medicine n i get punished and at times its unbearable.. But i would like to remind everyone of something very important from another perspective cuz id like your imput but this is what i believe should be.. Again this is only my opinion and what and how i feel about all these letters about peoples narcassistic husbands.. I really cant stand them for a couple of reasons.. Most say get away get out nothing can halp a narcassist they cant love you and its all negative talk and yes we are all full of negativity fed to us by our husbands. I believe there is hope. First. Of all do you a see what youre calling these men? You are calling them your husbands.! Number one.. In the mariage vows i took well we did it in the presence of THE LORD.. Do you realize what a vow is? Its a promise to GOD and each other. The vows also state that we will honor and obey love cherish in SICKNESS and in health for richer or poorer FOR BETTER FOR WORSE ALL THE DAYS OF YOUR LIFE.. Well THE BIBLE I READ said that GOD hates divorce but its allowed.. We promised before GOD and everybody and becuz there isnt an awareness of narcassism people dont know they have the disorder or just not schooled in it!! I go thru some major torment and torture from my husband but tho i dont react in an effective way all the time.. For some reason… I can feel his feelings his deep hidden ones becuz where he lacks in empathy i make up for with empathy. I have the ability to rreally feel how people must feel. I mean its not completely but i can pretty much litterally stand in other peoples shoes n feel their true hurt… And its sad.. For me cuz i hate that kinda pain loss greif sadness etc.. I dont want people to feel it either.. And these narcassists have feelings and what do you thing they feel like when they read that theres no hope for someone of their kind.. Thats a terrible thing to read about urself. .. Are we forgetting that narcassists are people too?? And God says love one another as u love urself doesnt He? Or did He. Say love everybody except the narcassist?? And u know my husband traits are even worse now hes gone i cant talk to him i miss him terribly and love him dearly.. And i fell in love with him becuz he has shown true love in his heart and emotion.. Its there. Somewhere. For the first 8 years then we had some huge problems in our marriage and when we got back together it was then that i knew for sure he loves me.. Very much. But i believe some of his narcassism is that of his alter ego his name fred and i call him ugly fred cuz he is a flat jerk i really dont care for him burbugly fred is who carries out his narcassistic traits in the worst way.. I ge seen emotion and love come out of him. I felt his love even.. Tho i feel the effects of his disorders daily we had this short period of time that we were bonding rebuilding and we spent alot of time with pillow talk and just re establishing our love and for about three months he was the most perfect husband in the world.. We didnt answer our phone for quite a while cuz we were focused on each other. He even wrote me the most beautiful to me love letter im sure hes not done that before and it was hard cuz hes not good with reading and writing but every time he abandons me i read that letter when hes really on one ive read it out loud so he could hear his own words and he gets mad but he wrote it i only remind him but he mentions his wrong doing wow and even apologized when i felt i shoud be the one and we even got closer than before. N im not sure what i did to cause this but he got angry at me cuz he became volunerable to me.. He said he didnt like that i was able to do that cuz he said nobody had.. It was the most beautiful time feeling relief comfort everything good and i hope i can chip away and pull him out of this so fred isnt running his life.. But my husband is very bad too but he also does well too.. Im very bad in some ways just different… So i would hope if you love .. Then one last but most important point. Y is everyone limiting GODSability no wonder theyre not getting curedbor whatever. U cant doubt GODS abilities cuz the Bible i read from MY GOD CAN DO ALL THINGS CUZ HE IS THE ALMIGHTY AND POWERFUL GOD AND THERES NOTHING NEW UNDER THE SUN. So i would lime to say to you .. I dont wanna offer u false hope and from what i knowGODS HOPE ISNT FALSE!! Read the love chapter in corinth 13 it says all things all things all thing !so i think maybe if u could have the faith of a mustard seed and belive GOD is answering ur pray already with no doubting allowed im thinkin GOD IS THE ONE to fix those whom we took with God in our presence!! Try that see what happens .. Do u believe GOD makes miracles happen well then y not for u and ur husband??
AMEN SISTER!
Yes Jacqueline I know what you are saying and i have been going by that for the past 8yrs. I believed the real love coming through and how we would talk for hours on end about the issues. He opened up to me many times and i saw the dark demons. He abused me over the years in every way possible and i also took responsibility for my bad reactions and responses to him. I kept the hope because i believed for better or worse sickness and in health i would stay. Despite the fact he nearly took my life and for the fact that our 2yr old bites her hands and pulls her hair when he is around too often. I finally realized that God did not die on the cross that horrible death for my daughter and i so that we could be put in an evil destructive situation. That is not freedom in Christ. We are told to stay far from evil. It is not helping the narcissist to allow them to continue destroying another person’s life and wellbeing. That is never God’s will for us. I am wanting to stick with him despite finding out about a secret woman and everything, but honestly he has transgressed the marriage vows in many ways. Yes my husband is quick to tell me divorce is against God but he has no respect for the covenant and what marriage means. So what do you do? Risk your sanity and the emotional wellbeing of the children in hopes he will change?
Praise God for someone who speaks the truth and the true word of God, I think exactly as you do although science wants to dictate otherwise. Trust in the Lord with all your heart and do not lean on your own understanding! I too will keep praying for my husband and my marriage, the vows that we pledged to God. I pray things will work out for you dear sister, we need to love one another as God loves us, and that includes our enemies. I do believe that God works miracles, we need to have more faith!!
Amen Jacqueline! I too have been VERY disappointed with most of what i read on the Internet and message boards about narcissists and people with other personality disorders. There is no hope out there! But with GOD THERE IS HOPE! MORE THAN ENOUGH HOPE! We have to believe and get on our knees in prayer and repentance and NEVER GIVE UP! Narcissists are broken people in desperate need of God’s love and someone who won’t give up on them!
I just filed for divorce on my N husband last week. This was not what I wanted, but after much prayer, it is a necessity. He devalued and discarded me and our other two children when I was eight months pregnant. It was all for another woman. I have prayed for him everyday for seven years, knowing he needed Christ. I still have hope for him, knowing God can rearrange circumstances to get his attention. God revealed to my heart that my husband will have to be stripped of absolutely everything, money, friends, family, marriage and his children, before he will ever submit to a higher power. I have reconciled myself to the fact that this may take years, but so be it, because even if we don’t ever get back together, he still needs to be healed of this evil disorder. Narcissism leaves a path of destruction that is not easily cleaned up, but with God, all things are possible. Thank you for your post.
I am a 45year old husband, with a loving wife and ,5 beautiful young kids. I come from a very disfunctional family where there was no love, and no real relationships. I have 4 sisters, all younger than me.
I realised on the 3rd of February this year, after reading some articles my wife showed me, that my mother is an extreme narcissist.
It was quite a shock to find out at the age of 45 that your mother is a narcissist, and that this was the main reason for the unhappy family situation.
I was devestated to realise this, and it suddenly occurred to me how much of my own bahaviour could directly be linked to the narcissistic traits that my mother instilled in me.
I made a lot of mistakes during my 45 years living with the influance of a narcissistic mother.
I have always suffered from low self confidence and low self esteem.
I have since repented many mistakes (sins) before God and my wife, since I did many wrong things against her. I also became aware of how broken and dark my soul has become from the narcissistic influance and the years of living it without realizing the effect on my own life, and the people around me.
I made really BAD mistakes, that only really occured to me once I realised the impact of narcissim on my life.
I do not know how close to a narcissist I am myself, but the way I lived up to 3rd of Feb showed many traits if narcissistic behaviuor. I have gone through do many emotions since I found out the truth.
On the 5th if Feb I prayed to God through Jesus and gave my life, as well as my problems to Him. I realise that I can not recover through my own strenght, and that I need God to take over through the Holy Spirit. I am strugling with a few things around God. 1.
I am a 45 year old husband, with a loving wife and ,5 beautiful young kids. I come from a very dis-functional family where there was no love, and no real relationships. I have 4 sisters, all younger than me.
I realized on the 3rd of February this year, after reading some articles my wife showed me, that my mother is an extreme narcissist.
It was quite a shock to find out at the age of 45 that your mother is a narcissist, and that this was the main reason for the unhappy family situation.
I was devastated to realize this, and it suddenly occurred to me how much of my own behavioral could directly be linked to the narcissistic traits that my mother instilled in me.
I made a lot of mistakes during my 45 years living with the influence of a narcissistic mother.
I have always suffered from low self confidence and low self esteem. I have treated my wife extremely badly from time to time, and I have made disastrous financial decisions due to narcissistic traits that I realized after reading the articles. I have also not make good career decisions, partly due to the low self confidence and other issues with Adult Children of Narcissist parents.
I have discovered how dark my soul is, and how my spirit for life was dampened from a young age due to the narcissistic traits instilled into me by my mother.
I have since repented many mistakes (sins) before God and my wife, since I did many wrong things against her. I also became aware of how broken and dark my soul has become from the narcissistic influence and the years of living it without realizing the effect on my own life, and the people around me.
I made really BAD mistakes, that only really occurred to me once I realized the impact of narcissism on my life.
I do not know how close to a narcissist I am myself, but the way I lived up to 3rd of Feb showed many traits if narcissistic behavior. I have gone through so many emotions since I found out the truth.
On the 5th if Feb I prayed to God through Jesus and gave my life, as well as my problems to Him. I realize that I can not recover through my own strength, and that I need God to take over through the Holy Spirit. I am struggling with a few things around God and my possible narcissism:
1. I pray a lot for healing from narcissism, but I am not always sure that my prayer is from my heart. I feel so broken, and I am sometimes wondering if I am truly seeking healing, or if I am just praying out of desperation.My soul sometimes feel so “lifeless” when I pray, and I sometimes tell God that I am just praying to share the way I feel, and I am not sure if He listens to me.
2. I have really big financial problems due to wrong decisions made during my reckless life.I am in a way desperate to get these problems resolved, and I have put them at the feet of Jesus. I can however not see a way out of the problems, and find it very hard to trust God and to be patient to address these issues.
3. I am so scared that I am a narcissist myself and that is not possible for me to be healed. I really want to see the light, and get freed from the darkness in my soul.that this narcissistic Beauvoir has brought onto me. It is SO difficult to just hand this over to God and rely on Him to bring around a change.
4. I really feel there is no way forward, and even prayer and asking the Holy Spirit into my hart. I have asked God for a dramatic step of change into my spirit and soul, but it seems that God does not listen.
I have seen a Christian Psychologist about 6 times, but at 45 years of age it seems so difficult, or even impossible, to really change.
I really want to change, and see the light to experience the fullness of life that God has meant for us. I also realize that I can not do this on my own, and that God really need to step in in a drastic way to free my soul and spirit from the scars of narcissism that was left over a period of 45 years!
Thanks for your article – it is really supportive. I really hope and trust that God will free me from the damage caused over the years.
Don’t give up Chris! Those thoughts and fears of not being able to truly change are from the devil, the enemy of your soul, who does not want you to be completely healed and whole. Keep pressing into your Heavenly Father and stay in His Word! Don’t give up!
Chris the first step to healing is admitting you have a problem. You are willing to fix it. If know one else is proud of you I am. I am just praying that my ex will come to this conclusion even though he has hurt me something awful I will continue to fight that spirit with prayer.
for Chris:
Ezekial 36:26
“I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you. I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.”
All things are possible with Christ. You may not “feel” as you think you should but breaking lifelong patterns is hard work. Instead, commit your will towards active obedience in the moment. Many Christians talk about a stage of “kenosis” (roughly translated to emptiness). First you must allow yourself to be in that place (which it sounds like you are doing) by owning the consequences of your past actions without resorting to rage or intimidation of those who you have hurt. When you stop silencing people you learn a lot.
The Holy Spirit is a mystery, but a very real force. When you give God’s spirit an invitation to change you and you stop directing your will towards ego gratification, you become God’s man.
Your family is truly blessed by your humility. I am praying for the seven of you.
I understand, Dave, what you are saying about trauma & survival & coping strategies. But in my experience, none of those things factored in…none. Is it possible that some people are just wired this way? That some people are just inherently narcissistic and (dare I say it) evil? In fact, the Ns in my life had wonderful parents and wonderful childhoods and wonderful experiences and yet were predisposed to narcissism and allowed it to consume them and percolate and grow; people who chose to cope thru selfish and self-centered means, and were so skilled at manipulating that others did not know what hit them. Is it possible that for some people it is just (dare I say it?) unrepentant sin? That some people prefer to be “on the throne” and have loyal subjects to command? That some people have always been more in touch with fantasy than reality? My own reality was that I actually had a terrible childhood with terrifying experiences, yet I did not choose fantasy, nor to be narcissistic; I actually look back on my childhood with fondness and remember being happy and enjoying life even tho it was painful and difficult. I always knew my Savior, and I clung fiercely to God’s sovereignty, and rested in knowing “there is a God in Heaven and I am not Him”. Perhaps the N is so consumed with “being God” that there is no time to rest in Him.
Very well spoken. Few people realize that some narcissists just are. Original sin on steroids, however you want to think about it. Your experiences in life sound just like my own. The question i wake up with every morning is the same, Do i stay or do I get out?
Penny, I have the same observation as yours. My “N’s” are my brother and sister who had a wonderful upbringing. My brother is a pastor and my sister spent time in the mission field and then teaching in a christian school. They hid their narcissism until they were in their 50’s by pretending to be what they thought others wanted them to be (what they claim is “performance orientation” — “love must be earned”). It was not until the last 12 years (after my brother almost attempted suicide) that their real personalities came to light. It is impossible to have any discussion with them over the incredible pain and destruction they have inflicted upon our immediate and extended family. Indisputable facts (including their own written words) mean nothing to them. They create “delusions” that they focus upon convincing themselves they are the victims. If you do not do what they want you to do then you are “disrespecting” them, rejecting them as persons and “unloving” them. There is no compassion or feeling of the pain they inflict upon others. They can never admit that they did something wrong. Even an “admission” they made a “mistake” is couched in terms stating it is everyone else who is actually to blame and they are the victim. The childishness of this behavior is so shocking it is impossible to believe if you have not seen or experienced it yourself. God Bless you. Ron
My husband does go with me to church and is seeking God. I have set up boundaries. I just don’t totally trust him. I do believe God is doing a work in him and us;. Sometimes the Lord Jesus heals instantly sometimes its a process.
There is so much here that it is hard to respond, so please realize that I am not making light by a short response. I did want to say that a very good book to read about loving people the way Jesus would is called “Bold Love” by Dan Allender. If Jesus loved the way much of the world thinks of love he’d have lived to be a ripe old age. Sometimes love has to be in your face because love always wants the best for the other person and sometimes the best thing is to get in their face. To a lesser degree, my wife does this for me. I have told her many times that I am the “chief of sinners” and that part of getting better of necessity means I need people who will “get in my face” a little when I sin big. We all need that. And I have asked her to be that for me. It can be done in a gentle way and still be theraputic and helpful. Anyway, the book I mentioned was very helpful to me in loving the unlovely especially the unlovely that don’t want to change.
I do have that book, I’ve read it a few times, it’s great, I think I need to go back and read it again. I read it a while ago, way before I ever heard of Narcissim. Now that I’m dealing with one at work, maybe it will help. Dan Allender also wrote “The Wounded Heart Hope For Adult Victims of Childhood Sexual Abuse.” I’m sure there’s some insight there too. Thanks for reminding me of it.
Well this blog has been very informative. I am the narcissist that everyone is talking about. The amazing lesson is I attracted a narcissist in my life, and fell in love. The up and down roller coaster I have been on with this person has shown me a lot about myself. My ex-husband has suffered the most though. As I read more about this disorder I see that I have hurt a lot of people in my life. The one I regret most is the man that has been the most loving to me in my life. I pulled this article up because I wanna get help. I had no idea what the heck I have been doing most of my life. We married very early in life in my 20’s and I have never been faithful and separated from him several times to go start other relationships and do the same to them. I have been in business for the last 10 years as well, and now understand that what I thought to be charisma is simply a ploy to get what I want. Now I heart broken because I have met my match another fellow narcissist that really turned the tables on me. Talk about getting what you give. This man and I basically have tortured each other to no end. He has been in such pain as well because well he met his match too.
I think that this is a gift and a punishment. It hurts like hell, I feel a little lost and very confused about what I have done to others. The more I read about it the more I see that I not only was a narcissist but hid under the pretensions of actually caring about others. Now I am not sure about anything I have every done at this point. I am looking for therapy, I no longer want to hurt others. Most of all I don’t want miss the real love that is available to me. I want to be able to help people and not use people. Thank you for having this up. Today is the actually day I realized that I have this disorder. I am off to recovery when I can afford it. Right now I will go to God as suggested and pray for forgiveness and then healing.
#wantogetitright
Shauna, I am really impressed with your courage. To have the guts to face the legacy you’ve left behind after hurting so many men must be very humbling.
Dave’s message today feels like it was meant for you- the idea that narcissism is confusion about identity rings very true. You got a lot of mileage out of “charisma”- it was what enabled you to keep “hooking” men who would provide you with reassurance that you were valuable. To let go of that power must feel really scary.
Yet- if you do let go and ask God to fill you with His Spirit instead, you will be given a new identity. I don’t know how to explain the process other than to share my own experience of this. You begin to hear “a still small voice” that speaks comfort into your pain. Perhaps that voice was there all along, but the incredible effort of manufacturing “charisma” kept you from hearing it.
The first thing I heard when I lay on a bathroom floor sobbing for God to help me change my life were the words, “Tell the truth, and you will get to the other side.”
Shauna, no doubt this truth telling will be painful. But you must understand that you are no longer alone. It will not always hurt so much. There is a really cool book by a woman named Anne Lamott called “Help, Thanks, Wow” that is really helpful in showing me how to access the still small voice when I have let other things overshadow my faith (because believe me, I am not perfect). It is so reassuring to understand that I can run back to the arms of One who has forgiven me, and One who is so strong that my worst sin could never break Him. In that strength I find the courage to confess the darkness within myself, and the hope that I can can fight the darkness and win.
I am praying for you, sister. May you feel God’s loving acceptance today and may it strengthen you to face your past. God has a plan for you.
With love,
Katie
Wow. U woke up and admit it.go girl! It turned back on u – mirror to mirror. U need Jesus to repeat and let past mistakes be done. U must learn to say sorry . Hugs n peace to you
The first thing you need to do is repent. Before forgiveness, before wanting to help people, before pretending to care about others, before recovery. You need to repent. The first word Jesus said when He began His earthly ministry was “repent”. That means to turn around, to turn away from your self, to turn away from your reflection in the mirror, to turn away from the reflection of yourself in others, to turn around, and turn toward Jesus and the cross. It means to admit that you are a wretched narcissist and that you need Jesus and that you will get off your throne and bow before HIm as the only One worthy of worship. Stop worshipping at the altar of self. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it is the truth and it is reality and you need to face it. It is the only way. HE is the only way. Everything else is smoke and mirrors and deceit and lust and craving. Jesus is the only way. Turn around. Repent and be forgiven.
Thts right. Amen
Good grief. The woman just bared her soul and I felt like you just kept jabbing the repent word at her. I believe she has already done this. For if she didn’t she wouldn’t have written what she did. That is remorse straight from the heart. Maybe YOU need to get off your throne of self. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
my ex bf narcarssist learned from me bout Jesus and i took Him to church. He was learning. I realized knowing which is truth and lies coming from him. I see the narc ways is about hiding truth and survival skills away from Pain.
I really believe he was molested ( claims he was beaten up by family member and says he’s not gay). he had problems hurting women prior to me. All his ex women were weak or not strong as I am. Anytime, he acted up with bad mouthing and insults, I kicked him out of my house many times. He returns to me and acts better. final straw, I kicked him out and cut off off contact for 9 months. He know Jesus exist. Evil had taken hold of him and he’s running around with other women- feeding his ego and attention. He trust me with his deepest bout him. Always will love him but he has to get help. Silent treatment kills him.
I’m a Narcissist. This gave me some hope that I can beat this thanks.. u hit it all on the nail on who we are and how we got to be how we are.. I made a shell to protect myself but never realized that I was stuck in that shell with no way out and I made it unbreakable 😦
You have just taken the first big step by admitting you are. That is an incredible start. I am sure, you can if you keep close to Jesus and use the whole armor of God to keep the devil out you will stay free and unstuck. ❤
Chris, if you are willing to admit you might be a Narcissist, you probably just have narcisstic behavior….something which Can be overcome. Look up to Jesus for your help and the shell Will be breakable. You have got to be willing to give Him everything to see and recieve the peace He gives.
It took me years to figure out what was wrong with my mother. I am now 50 and my mother 80. Plain and simple; yes God can do anything, but he gave us a conscience and a choice. I can pray until I have no more breath, it is, in the end up to my mother in how she will behave. We can pray for her conviction of her conscience and forgive them because this really is a mental illness. A stigma does exists for this type of illness, but sadly, rarely gets any treatment. Early intervention psychosis would help if it is caught in a persons life who are just beginning symptoms such as this and nip it in the bud ASAP.
an ah-hah moment for me-
When the narcissist pulls us into his/her orbit we here “no one has ever treated me so well, ext. Our compassion is engaged. We are encouraged to give to the point of exhaustion and then are rewarded for it. We are filled with purpose because we see our goodwill as a force to be reckoned with. Our new “N” friend has a new and improved life because of our efforts.
For all caregiving types- feeling that our kindness matters has been an agent of positive change is like a drug to us. Except- all the thank yous and affirmations disappear once they feel we are “hooked”. The narcissist gets used to that extra goodwill and feel bouyed by the narcissistic supply it provides. You think your kindness is “healing” a wounded soul. Not so much. It’s simply being repurposed for narcissistic supply- as in “if she does all this stuff for me, she must totally worship me!”
When you get tired because the narcissist doesn’t reciprocate, their lack of understanding that they are doing better because of your kindness is completely lost on them. They don’t grasp that you were giving to them out of compassion- they think you were giving to them to kiss up to their awesomeness. However temporary the interruption of narcissistic supply may be, it is liable to produce rage because the narcissist feels it is “owed”.
If the narcissist is not immediately soothed and the supply replaced, then this is the point that devaluation begins. Typically, as soon as the narcissistic victim “gets back on the horse’ to provide more supply, it is too late. You are no longer an angel, you are a delinquent bill payer.
So you redouble your efforts and give beyond reason until you inevitably disappoint the narcissist again. At this point, you are personally depleted and lower than low. If the narcissist were to admit they had sucked you dry, then they would have to admit that they were desperately addicted to the narcissistic supply you were providing. Instead- it’s far easier to get angry at you for no longer carrying the energy demands of propping up a false self.
The reason it takes so long to recover from the subsequent discard is that the victim’s sense of agency has been destroyed. When you give beyond reason and become completely selfless, there is no greater sense of failure when your efforts are maligned and ultimately discarded.
Healing is helped by the understanding that it was not the failure of goodwill on your part that caused the relationship to fail. It was the bottomless pit of need for narcissistic supply. Your goodwill was a beautiful gift that happened to get thrown down a well. But that can not negate the fact it was still a beautiful gift.
Don’t let the narcissists lack of ability to understand that gift render your best efforts meaningless. Your love matters and God can use it. You just have to stop throwing it down the well.
I divorced my narcissist over 2 years ago. We have 4 kids whom I was very close too. Ages -13, 14, 16, 19. My husband has managed to convince my oldest 3 that the entire divorce is my fault and iam evil. My youngest has aspergers and struggle with the lies at first but now remains with me. During my visitation with the kids they continuely beg and plead with me to give them up. I have fought this since 7 months after the divorce. I have grown close with Jesus in this painful time.. and have recently found some peace about letting them go. But I love and miss my children so much.. im still scared. I don’t know if I’m trusting in him or just giving up. Do you have any thoughts on this?
I am a mother of four two and your story gives me chills. My ex husband and his family wanted to have me declared unfit and to seek full custody of our kids. He met a woman, had her quit her job, and started talking about how they would be better off in a completed family. What changed his mind was the practical realities of caring for 4 young children between the ages of 3 and 9- both the new woman and he decided it was in their self interest to keep me around as a “nanny on demand”.
That being said, the smear campaign my husband and his family perpetrated outside our home was also spread to the children who were constantly told that I was incompetent and crazy. My oldest daughter in particular “bought it” until she had a nervous breakdown requiring hospitalization once she realized that her dad and girlfriend were spending less and less time with them and wanted to have a child of their own. I think the wound was related to the idea- “If mom is so awful, then why do you leave us with her to be with your girlfriend?” She was devastated when her half sister was conceived and said “now that he has a child with the good woman why would he want us at all anymore?”
I can’t begin to describe how painful it was to simultaneously play the role of scapegoat and do all the grunt work of parenting. I didn’t understand that so much of the difficulty was my ex actively alienating my kids from me. The fact that your kids have been “turned against you” suggests that a similar dynamic is at work. The fact that he only wants your “normal kids” further reinforces that.
I can’t tell you when your kids will come to understand the truth, but I can reassure you that if you do not return his evil and put the kids at the center of the conflict, you will be vindicated. Why? Because once the kids become inconvenient and he’s no longer trying to prove to the world that he’s super dad, he’ll stop the “perfect dad who is rescuing you from evil mom” act. Kids are a lot of work and narcissists are all talk and no action.
Recognizing that my daughter was being put in the position of having to choose sides with her father to retain his love and approval (otherwise he’s tell her- you’re just like your mother)- I swallowed my pain and said “It’s ok if you hate me right now. I just want you to be ok. I love you and if you decide to return you are always welcome.” I did this to preserve her psychological health. We had about 5 rough years. I never lost custody but the alienation remained.
Interestingly, my kids have come to understand the limitations of their fathers love and I now find myself doing my best to cast his actions in the most positive light possible to help them as their own hearts break as they now grasp the callousness with which he treats people. My relationship with all 4 kids is incredibly solid. What it took was prayerfully “letting go” of the need to defend myself. I thought a lot about Solomon and the story of the 2 concubines and his proposition that the child be cut in half. The real mother was willing to give the child up before seeing it harmed.
Your 3 children who are with your ex husband have been temporarily brainwashed because they believe that their survival depends on him. When they are older they will see things more clearly. Their father is a selfish man and the patterns of his life will be evident once the “crisis” in which he has cast himself as “rescuer” has passed. They will hunger for you because while your ex believes that caregivers are interchangeable, your children know that you are their mother and only you can fufill the longing for “mom”. When his nastiness starts to manifest, your gentle replies and consistent message of sacrificial love will be remembered.
In the meantime, you have been given the privilege of being able to focus your child who needs you the most, because he has likely served as scapegoat as well. Love him with every bit of your broken heart and that bond will go a long way in healing you both. Without you, he truly has nothing because he has been rejected by his father. But he has you, and (for now) your singular focus. I have a son who is on the autistic spectrum as well and know all too well how labor intensive parenting him can be.
Take the deep grief you feel at being temporarily (and I promise you- it will be temporary) denied your children and lovingly tell them. “I want what is best for you. If this is best, then I support you. But even though you walk away I will always be here with open arms to welcome you home.”
My world fell apart in 2006. In 2008 I thought I would lose my children and that my life was no longer worth living. In 2014, my relationship with all four children has been restored and they are thriving. I have remained cordial with my ex and now find that I am offering support to the new wife (who stopped after 1 child because he makes her do all the work) in the sense I always stick up for her. We now get together regularly when my ex husband travels so my kids can see their half sister. I am in a relationship with a kind man who treats me very differently. He respects my need to put the kids first and is willing to “take things slow”. God truly provided a way through the pain.
My advice to you is: Be patient. You are living in the middle of a powerful story of God’s love. You are like Job after everything had been stripped away. Follow Job’s example and don’t let your heart grow bitter. Everything will be restored in due time. Love the child you still have with you with every ounce of your being.
A wonderful devotion book that sustained me during my darkest days Is “Streams in the Desert” by L.B. Cowman. The writings of Kristin Armstrong (Lance Armstrong’s ex) are also really helpful.
I will pray for you.
Prodigalkatherine, do you have a blog?
I have spent the afternoon reading a lot of different articles on this topic. In short, I was married for over 22 years to this type of “personality.” Then I turned around and remarried that same personality again. (I was deceived into thinking my husband was a believer) Now it’s been just almost 2 years in Nov. I have been saved and spirit filled for 32 years. I sought the Lord diligently and still do on my marriage. Of course everyone is saying run! However…….
God has chosen to close all avenues of me leaving. Dried up finances etc….I had told the Lord at one time that I would lay down my life to just see my husband give his life over to Him if that is what it took. I meant it. Now it is a different type of “laying down my life.” I endure a lot of what has been written thus far. I hold on knowing that GOD IS ALL POWERFUL. I understand a person has a will. I also know I am standing in the gap.
I want to encourage you all and give you HOPE. Some days are better than others for me. I have learned to cultivate a life outside of my husband’s involvement for me and my 15 year old daughter. I ALWAYS treat my husband in a Christ like manner. I do NOT tolerate or stay “quiet” when my husband is rude or disrespectful. I tell him in a clear but respectful manner how his words/actions affect me. In one case, after I did this, SUDDENLY, the next morning he asked if I would PLEASE make him a lunch. He has never used manners before. Of course I said absolutely.
I trust God, I KNOW for ME God has called me to stay. It would be disobedience for me to leave. I see subtle changes happening with my husband. Honestly, my heart grieves for my husband. I am the one free in Jesus and he is the one trapped in an emotional turmoil. I want him FREE and so does Jesus. I do the best I can do and that is stay prayerful and be led of the Spirit to speak what I only need to speak.
God is good my friends and He wishes for nobody to perish. In the end I can say I was obedient. I also have a vision of my husband coming to me and apologizing. I am anticipating the time when he can just embrace love and all that it has to offer from Jesus AND me!
SPEAK LIFE IN THE DEADEST DARKNESS NIGHTS! *** Toby Mac***
God’s Word is LIFE!
God bless you Jo Ann! May your vision come soon by the power of Yahshua!
God can do ANYTHING and that includes regenerating a narcissist. He changed Paul who never was open for change or searching for God on the road to Damascus. God completely changed a man who persecuted His children and claimed he was the “chief of sinners”. I know there is much debate over free will and election, but God’s got it all covered. If He can bring me out (slowly) of the depths of narcissism, He can bring anyone out easily. He is the creator of the world for pity sake.
Notice the pronoun “I”.
“For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God.” Ezekiel 36:24-28
Denise, I am always looking for hope for the narcissist. I have an unnatural burden for a friend (and a whole lot of energy to pray for him that I can’t even comprehend). I don’t know if you will get this, but I would like to know more about how God brought you out of narcissism. I would like to feel like all this- what I’ve gone through and my heart for this person .. have been for a purpose for him. If there is a way you can tell me more, I would like to hear your story.
I disagree with you that Paul was not seeking God. The reason he was persecuting Christians was his zeal for God.
I agree with you that God can do anything. NOTHING is impossible for God.
God bless you!
This is for EVERYONE that is with a Narcissist. LEAVE THEM. Yes God can save them, yes he is the ONLY one that will be able to deliver them from this demonic stronghold that has them paralyzed with fear and anger. BUT that doesn’t mean we have to stay with them while we pray and have faith. Staying with a Narcissist hoping and believing they will change is like hancuffing yourself to a seriel killer hoping and praying that he won’t kiill you too. Be wise in your decisions. They are toxic people and the longer you stay with them the longer you will be exposed to the toxic fumes. No matter how much you show them love they will see you as an enemy. They can’t be freed unless THEY choose to be. And it has to first start with them WANTING to be. Then it has to END with THEM choosing to seek God to save them etc. If they ask for help and are serious about it you can guide them to the right direction but it isn’t anyone else’s responsibility to save them. You can only do so much for someone but they have to want it themselves. Don’t let other people make you feel pressured to stay with them. It’s always easy for other people to tell you what you should do but you are the only one that has to endure the abuse, and noone including God wants you to suffer or be abused. And yes its abuse what they put and have put us through. We need to take this a little more serious and stop living in a falsehood. These people cause others to be emotionally damaged bc thats what they are. Don’t allow someone to damage you. Listen to your own gut instincts, not the voices of family members, pastors, etc. Protect yourself and your children from toxicicity. And ofcourse PRAY always.
I am a leader in Church and have worked with Narcs for sometime. Several of the characteristics and impact on the lives of those in their wake I can identify with. While everyone has to really hear God specifically for their situation, I strongly suggest the application of the words of Paul- TURN AWAY/Have nothing to do with such people
Narcs can thrive in church/faith based constructs like dracula in a blood bank. The often undiscerning empathy and compassion of some Believers give them rampant opportunity. They pretend to want to change, will say all the right things, but will not demostrate the fruit of repentence. REMEMBER, generally there should be traceable and observable change or you are in a hall of mirrors, while they tout their form of godliness. As you read the scripture you will see the essential driving characteristics of the Narc.
But mark this: There will be terrible times in the last days. 2People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 without love, unforgiving, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not lovers of the good, 4treacherous, rash, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God— 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with such people.
May God strengthen you with discernment, courage and wisdom to effectively manage these relationships
James, I have seen this in action as well within the church (beyond my narc husband). IMO a large part of the problem lies in people recognizing these people exist. People will take a scripture like you quoted and rationalize that we ALL do some of those things at times and we don’t want to be seen as evil so people give everyone else a break, lest we might feel we need to lump ourselves with these people. I recall one man in church who wanted the church to use his business for a project but we got a better price elsewhere. He threatened that if we didn’t use him then he would no longer give to the church and he was a big contributor (he reminded us of that). He went to other lengths to manipulate others who weren’t involved. People who were aware of the whole situation (I was one) kept this hush hush beyond our committee because it was seen as nasty to speak the truth about such a person. I said we should absolutely NOT use this man’s business but others said “oh, that’s just the way he is” and shook it off. Interestingly my husband was this man’s advocate and said he was just “misunderstood” and happily exclaimed how he could identify with him. He made it seem that because he was willing to extend “grace” to this man that this meant he was the bigger person.
What many (most?) people don’t understand is that for narcs their life is CHARACTERIZED by these traits AND they have no remorse or desire for repentance. They don’t grieve their sin.
Amen.
I had a dream about my ex that I hold on to. In the dream, he softened his robotic, flat affect, walked towards me, and embraced me. In that embrace, he whispered “I”m so, so sorry for what I’ve done. I’m so sorry I hurt you.” Now, my ex would NEVER say that to me, and IF he did spontaneously apologize, it felt like a slap in the face…always the insinuation that it was my fault he was so irritated. However, in that dream, I knew he was God’s. My ex won’t do this in real life, EVER. He is not capable. I have to let God deal with him in whatever way He sees fit. Maybe I will get my apology in heaven, who knows.
You’re comment brought tears to my eyes. I was asking God after still currently living with my husband on how will I know for sure when God touches him and it’s not an act. Your dream was exactly what God told me. I never told anyone about what God spoke to me until now. It gave me so much hope. I keep believing God because He is not a man that he should lie. God can do this in the here and now. I’m praying for you. In the natural it appears that it could never happen. However, with God ALL things are possible. I know the pain and hurt. I deal with it every day as I live with him. GOD is faithful. Know that I encourage myself and am reminded of God’s promise as i write this. Thank you for sharing.
God is Great! We see so limited. God bless you.
Google “From narcissism to nirvana” About a mans journey to heal himself from narcissism. He also says you cannot help a narcissist, they have to help themselves, the best way to help them is to love yourself enough to leave. Also Kim Cooper has a website called “narcissismcured” her Husband was cured from narcissism.
Tan, I wrote about the NarcissismCured site a while back. Here’s the link: https://graceformyheart.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/narcissism-cured/
Narcissists are our neighbours are they not? Jesus calls us to love our neighbours as ourselves. Whilst narcissists are capable of terrible things & I have first hand experience of this, we should call on Jesus & the Holy Spirit to help us minister to these people & to help us find the strength to try & change a life. Narcissists are often people who have gone through extreme truama & jesus would ask us to love them as we do ourselves. Perhaps some are beyond help, but all things are possible through God & we need to believe that. Recently I have lost a battle with someone suffering from narcissism. Whilst I have been beaten & I am almost broken I would not change a thing about the time I spent with her as im now closer to God than ever before. I pray that Jesus can save her tortured soul.
Jason, we must all live with ourselves until the day we die. I’m glad that this experience has brought you closer to God. That can never be a bad thing!!
But as for me, I believe God strongly led me to cut off the Ns — a family of them. There are verses that call for us to have nothing to do with evil people (not rude people, not dishonest people, not obnoxious people — but evil people).
Although Jesus does teach that we are to turn the other cheek, He has never asked me to put my cheek in a place where I know it will be slapped.
We all must seek God on how to react, and God has different plans for all of us, although His plans for all of us is always what is best and right.
Married for the last 42 years, only recently have I come to learn about all the pain, humiliation, lies, adulteries, denials, criticism was about…narcissism. At 60 years old with disabilities, I thought there isn’t anywhere to run to and escape all this increasing abuse. Until that physically happens, I’ve learned first hand what a refuge He is. I have done as God has asked and as I look back, it was God and His mercy calling my husband to get alone with Him. My husband was in a lot of pain, God said, and God longed to heal him. When I mentioned this to husband, he was enraged to the point of ”promising not to have me committed if I sought help” God has shown Himself extremely merciful for the man to the point of weeping for him. Yet, husband grew worse and worse, always blaming, accusing, etc until I thought I was as he said….crazy. The Lord showed me recently that it is ok to divorce when it comes to fornication, that to even look at another woman with lust in your eyes has already committed the adultery.. Being a porn addict and acting out his fantasies with other woman has only increased. What scared me was the day he swore to God he has done nothing wrong..and I was angry with God for letting him get away with all these lies. Yet, God has repeatedly shown me not to envy his evil ways, not to fear his threats but to trust Him. Many times in the bible God acts ‘suddenly’ and maybe this is the course and I’ve been shown time after time, husband is hard hearted and will not listen or will he turn to God and after yrs of this, not to pray for him anymore. I can’t financially divorce and walk out so I have talked with God on two levels: one: I am divorced in my heart & two: I hope it changes between God and him for his eternal stake, he is a man Jesus died for. I believe God is trying to build up the strength I’ve lost after years and years of abuse, preparing me for the end of this marriage. God has wept for him and has barrels of my tears in heaven but God is just and righteous just as He is long suffering and merciful. Who really ever mentions the fear of God’s anger on a man who once received Christ but turned away, committing his unrepentant sins that he holds as a trophy. There is no winner in this situation with narcissism….God has wept most likely more than I have and the one who is so smug with self made righteousness, a justification for the filth and lies, has a lot of crying ahead. Now that is scarey because although he stood and lived in denial all these yrs with me, I know that the tactics he’s used won’t work what so ever when he stands before Christ. though my narcissist husband believes/threatens it will be me and not him that suffers on day of judgment. Matter of fact, he blames God for destroying his life and letting me believe he is sinful. Really does feel like I’m living in the same house with an evil thing, not a man who I married over 40 yrs ago. It’s sad for all, even for our Lord.
While I believe our God is bigger than any problem we have here on Earth, I also know first hand that a narcissist who was raised in a Christian home will believe, like everything else in their life, that they have everything right with God and everyone else is lacking and will not be going to heaven. I know this because from as early as I can remember, my mother, who is a narcissist, would tell me how evil, wrong, and ungodly I was. I hit a point in my teen years where I felt like if I was to be accused of it, I may as well make the accusations true and I did things I should not have done. I have since repented and am in church and have no contact with my mother though I pray daily that God will touch her heart. It will take His infinite power to break through the delusion she lives in. Narcissists do not admit they have any flaws and are extremely toxic people. I believe Satan manipulates that to his benefit. He gets a hold on their soul in that darkness and does not let go under the guise of protecting them. Therefore all you can do is pray for their soul and avoid getting in contact with them because their darkness wants to suck you in as well.
I thank God i came across this blog. I live in Kenya and i think not much is known about narcissists. I met my boyfriend some 9 months ago and i have gone through hell within this period. We had separated in February and got back together in April. During the period of separation i realized that he could be suffering from some disorder. Then i remembered someone had once pointed out to him that he is a narcissist. I looked up the meaning and it started making sense. He has hurt many women in the past. He is selfish and manipulative, he can get extremely cold. Right now i am 7 months pregnant and he treats me like trash. I have realized that much as i need to pray for him, i should do so when i am away from him. I really want us to have a future together, but only when he is changed. I know it’s God who has guided me to this blog and i trust that the same God will change him. I believe in prayers, in the power of the Holy Spirit and i know in God’s time he will be changed.
I am facing death and have just figured out that I am a narcissistic woman who has done very cruel and evil things to those around me. Now, as I am faced with death, I want to change my behaviour and heart so I can be in Heaven and I need to know that it is not too late for me to repent and be loved and accepted by God in His infinite grace and mercy or else I lose all that really matters to me. Most Christians who don’t want to be around me don’t realize how much they could help me change if only they would see the real me.
“THEY could help ME change” if only “THEY would see” the real me.
It’s not their job to change you, it’s not their job to see the “real you.”
The Holy Spirit changes people — ask God to fill you with His precious Spirit who will bring to your mind what you must do, how you must live, with whatever time God decides to give you.
And then show people what God has done. Live a life that brings glory to God. Let people see your good works to bring glory to the Father, and ask the Father to open people’s eyes.
I wish you peace.
I was one of the people who originally asked the question that resulted in this post. I wanted to mention that is ‘seems’ to be helping a narcissist that I know to focus on the beauty of God. If ( and with a narcissist it really is a big if) you can get them to focus on God and His beauty and character and the fact that ultimately He’s that only truly safe ‘person’ there is but in Him they have a safe person who will never do to them what has been done by others, it can/may help.
For this I’d suggest Isaiah 40-42, and the last few chapters of Job which also focus on Gods beauty, character and love and protection of us.
But as Dave says getting them to the water is as hard as making them drink it.
I just prayed for all of us dealing with this either in our own lives, or the lives of others we love, or work with (workplace narcissism is devastating, too).
Dave, I was married for 38 years to a man with NPD and perhaps RAD. On family outings with our sons he would intentionally hold back, walk behind us, never engage as a whole family, and he resented my love for Jesus and others. He rejected 28 months of counseling, only accepting to a degree what another counselor said after he divorced me and was in several failed dating relationships. The woman he is with now knows his issues but wants to marry in the Catholic Church, so he is on try #2 to annul our marriage. I see no change in his manipulative attitude, no sign God has broken through in him. My prayer is that God breaks the masks off and pours into him so he can and chooses to cry out to Jesus. I’ve seen miracles, and I fervently pray for this “impossible” one soon.
Thank you for your post. Is it possible to pray for a narcissist to change ? Ive tried to practice unconditional love but the pain is running deep now of being given hope only for it to be continually snatched back. I pray. I think they have changed but it’s a matter of a few days or weeks before the cycle returns. Ive been on the brink of divorce now coming up to two years. I keep praying for gods help maybe the fact it’s not working out is my sign ? I really don’t know. I don’t know if I’m co dependent and I had myself questioning if I’m one as he keeps maligning my character and even though my logical mind knows none of it is true it still hurts my heart That the person I chose to marry after waiting so long turned out to be able to hurt me this much. I also accept we attracted each other and that’s another point. As I learnt all relationships are eternal and if we leave unresolved issues we go onto the next relationship attracting the same relationships this has occurred to me again. The first one lasted in two decades of make up break up until I realised he’d moved on for two years and lied to me and I believed him. I didn’t realise he was a narcissist until I’m married to a guy I thought loved me more Than I loved him ( impossible ) as my capacity for love ( or pain ) is so high. I wish I had the answers. I pray for all souls who are suffering the same or any kind of torment or pain and questioning the meaning of this existence which I learn is all an illusion. Peace and I hope whoever reads this finds solace in prayer and it’s true gratitude and forgiveness are the keys to freedom and joy. Thank you and most of all I pray for children with narc parents as it’s a spiral of pain they leave their children and all who encounter them in.
I have to admit that I have not prayed about this much but, I think I am a true Narcissist. I do not want to get help from the World, rather I would prefer Christian help from someone who knows Jesus. Psychology would only seek to further make me a victim (if that makes sense).
Any ideas or suggestions you may have would be HUGELY appreciated.
It would be unfair, difficult, and dangerous for a Christian to take you under his/her wing. I would urge you to get to know Jesus yourself. PRAY, PRAY, PRAY. SEEK, SEEK, SEEK. Jesus promised that those who SEEK HIM WILL FIND HIM. There are no shortcuts.
Find a church. READ the bible. READ READ READ. Ask God to open it up to you. Ask Him, the Potter, to mold you, the clay. A broken and contrite heart He will NOT turn away.
And you may want to seek help from a Christian psychologist/psychiatrist.
I am a narcissist. I developed the condition in adult hood as a result of my old job and wife. I was once saved but I find it hard to commit anymore as a result of being a narcissist. My lack of feelings and emotions toward anyone make it difficult to seek help. I am still a moral person and know right from wrong. Pray for me… most of the time I feel there is no way for me to go to heaven.
Josh,
Not sure what you mean by “find it hard to commit.” To whom? To what? That could just be as a result of being “burned” and being burnt out.
Lack of feelings and emotions? We don’t walk by “feelings.” And there’s a big difference between LACK of feelings and having MALEVOLENT feelings. I do believe narcissists enjoy, get satisfaction from, making someone else miserable.
No way to you to go to heaven? You’re right there!! At least, if you’re depending on your own merit.
But Jesus paid the price — and you’ve already learned that. He promised never to leave or FORSAKE you. Regardless of your feelings.
I would really recommend that you see a counselor and perhaps explore the possibility of depression.
I sincerely believe that people with NPD have a demonic stronghold that has taken residence in them. And, many from childhood. The only hope is Jesus Christ. However, the person has to WANT help and they have to want to be free.
That’s why, in the Bible, Jesus always asked the sick and the lame, “Do you want to be made well?”. If not, it wouldn’t make any difference. Jesus has the power to make them well without them wanting it. But, the stronghold would just come back. Or the person would just seek out the thing that got them in trouble in the first place (imagine Jesus making a crack addict completely sober when he/she doesn’t want to be sober). He will not force healing upon ANYONE.
So, can a narcissist be cured? ONLY with the redemptive power of Jesus Christ. And ONLY if they truly and sincerely want to be made well. Nothing is too hard for God!
I agree Anne Shirley that it is demonic influence in a person with narcissism and other personality disorders such as OCPD and BPD. Jesus is the answer. He is our Healer. He can open their eyes to their condition. These people need someone who loves them enough to stand in the gap for them and pray unceasingly that they will know the truth about themselves and that they will know how deep, high, wide and long the love of God is for them. All this are possible with God! Amen!
I think this is an excellent article, well written and easy to present to the narcissist; it is one that will not reinforce their defence mechanism because it stresses that they need help too (not just their victims) and that there IS a help; Our beautiful Lord and saviour who can redeem all things. It is the only article as you so rightly pointed out that shows any empathy or thought for the narcissist, the only one I have come across anyway and I have researched a few, I can tell you. Having been in the most tumultuous relationship of my life for nine years, with a narcy, and having come to The Lord during that time at the half way point and having pointed out that he is a N for most of that time and trying to help him, yes, at the emotional detriment of myself (I am fatter, unfit, and suffer from a fear of going out alone as a result, which is distressing as I was an independent and very capable individual before) I am still indeed hopeful that The Lord can and will change him. More for him than myself as I am not sure if I can go ahead with real marriage to this person as it is such a damaging situation for me to be in. The Lord has been my rock and I do see this person as a cross I bear and also feel I am meant to assist him in his faith although we must step out of our comfort zones (but He does wish for us to implent common sense and consulting Him through His word has been most helpful for me, enabling me to see His viewpoint on the issues a narcissist suffers from/instills in others.) I feel that I have now done enough as I will be ineffective forever if I continue. The Lord actually led me to the narcissistic disorder which I thought I understood, but didn’t . Anyway, I just really wanted to say thank you, because like you, my faith makes me believe that we are never to give up hope as that is something we cling to in all aspects of our faith. More hope for the individual than the relationship, I may add. I don’t believe Jesus wants us to become emotional wrecks in order to help others. With help from The Holy Spirit and The Word of God, our go-to for His opinions, one can discern whether they should try in the relationship or let go and Let God (which is a good option regardless). Thank you so much for your input on this troubling topic. May God bless you for so helping those of us touched by this issue.
Prayer for a narcissist:
Dear Lord,
I bring before You__________ and ask that You break their hard heart and crush their haughty spirit. I ask that You deliver godly blows, beatings and wounds to cleanse them of their EVIL. Expose their lies. Force them to see the TRUTH. Do not allow ______ to prosper in their sins. Do not allow them to continue to lie and manipulate those around them. Remove all of their ungodly protections, ungodly supports and ungodly obsessions. Strike them down in key positions of power, where they have created a safe haven to wear their mask of sanity and do evil. Rip the blinders from their eyes. Expose themselves to themselves and to others. Do not let them escape Your mighty, powerful and merciful conviction. Destroy the enemy working in their hearts and minds. Surround them with opportunity to hear Your word. May the evil in and around them that they have loved so long, become a stench of death. May godly fear and sorrow bring them to their knees in repentance. Remove all their distractions. All of the things that have become a distraction to You and Your truth and salvation. Make their idols become a stench of death. Make Your word and Your people a fragrant scent of life so they will turn from the evil things and thoughts they have relied on so many years for a defense mechanism. Turn those who they’ve manipulated with GLEE, against them. Turn their positions of power, where they have inserted themselves to continue their secret evil, into shame and disgrace. May all of this bring them to You, so they can no longer be held captive to do the Devil’s will, which is shockingly become their will. RIP them from Satan’s claws. Drag them onto Your path, so they may desire the Way, the Truth and the Light and be terrified and hate the darkness. Thank You Lord. With You, anything is possible.
Thank you for sharing this prayer, Shelia. It seems compassionate toward both the narcissist and their victims, it’s comprehensive in its scope, and it’s beautifully written. I like it and may just print it out and post it somewhere at home or in my office.
Thanks for sharing this prayer Sheila. I have copied it down into my prayer journal for a loved one in my life with narcissistic tendencies/traits and OCPD. God bless you, Sheila. God is more than able to set narcissists free!
I am married to a narcissist for a few years now and separated for almost as many yet we remain in a close relationship at the Lord’s leading. It has been the most difficult and most blessed time in my life. I have never been closer to Jesus or loved Him more than I do today. I am truly going through the refiner’s fire and it hurts like crazy but I know that when I come out the other side I will be as gold (Job 23:10).
I have a question to ask that may sound stupid: why should anyone divorce their narcissistic spouse? Think about it for a minute. It’s a bit of a trick question. I believe that the narcissist is evil, yes. Without a doubt. So why should I be in the position of having to divorce him? Shouldn’t he be divorcing me, as he has threatened to do, SO many times? Why does he not follow through? I do not tolerate abuse against me or the children and whenever I set boundaries our situation escalates so that more distance between us is required. Yet he has never filed for divorce. Never sued me for custody. He has got to be one of the most miserable and tortured people that I know. Do you know why? Because God is pursuing him. And God has led me again and again to remain in the relationship (though thankfully out of the house!) and to fast and pray for his salvation. The Lord has supernaturally provided for me and protected me. I have watched Him oppose my husband and bring calamity upon him and yet bless him at the exact same time. It blows my mind. The Lord has promised me that if I stand firm on the rock of Jesus Christ and obey Him (Matt 7:24-25) that my house will not fall.
My husband is in a battle for his soul and I do not know what the outcome will be. I have had signs that he will repent and signs that he will not repent. The Lord gives me no assurance as to the future. I have faced the facts head-on and know that whatever happens, there will be resolution and the Lord will be glorified either way. The Lord will judge between us (1 Samuel 24:12) If my husband leaves and the Lord releases me, then that will happen quite apart from my hand.
Only a miracle can heal a narcissist- but the Bible is full of miracles. 🙂
KC, this is my story as well. It’s the same with one exception: my husband has filed for divorce. However, the Lord has intervened in the court system so many times in this whole ordeal that the divorce has been on the docket for three years. The Lord has called me to stand for my husband and our marriage. Whether divorce comes or not, I will never stop praying for my husband to be delivered. His eternal salvation is at stake. Just wanted you to know you aren’t the only one going through the fire. God is mighty and faithful. He will make every bit of it work out for our good.
KC, this is for you: “If my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.” 2 Chronicles 7:14-15
Thanks for sharing that jolieliz. That is indeed encouraging. Praise God for His work in your lives! May God bless you and give you everything you need as you obey His call on your life. 2 Cor 4:17
Have any of you found some good prayers to pray for a narcissist? I was in a five-year relationship with one who also claims to be a Christian, but shows no fruit of it. I believe he accepted the Lord as his Savior, as he says, 30+ years ago, but he never grew spiritually. He accepted him as Savior, but never made him Lord. He attends church. As I said I was dating him for five years, but he broke up with me so many times, I lost count, somewhere between 15 and 20. I know God is more than able to heal him of all is “diseases” (note: I do believe narcissism and personality disorders are primarily demonic influence) and that God has a wonderful plan for his life. I know God brought me into his life to love him and pray for him to get into a right standing with God, to intercede for him. I don’t see him often these days since our last break up many months ago, as he has moved on into yet another new relationship, this time with an unbeliever, that I know will fail due to his narcissism. But I still bring him before the throne of God every day in prayer. Just wondering if anyone has some good prayers out there specific to narcissism?
Hi Leah. I have prayed many Scriptures over my husband. Here are some of the ones I have found especially meaningful to narcissism:
Romans 12:1-2
Psalm 139:13-14 (God’s original design for the person)
Psalm 1
Psalm 51 (for his repentance)
Ezekiel 36:25-27
Isaiah 55:6-7
Isaiah 30:12-22 (I have found this to be a beautiful description of the narcissistic stronghold and God’s desire to break through it and show his grace)
Luke 15:17 (pray that he comes to his senses and returns to his Father!)
Phil. 2:1-4 (pray for growth of Christ-like character)
Eph. 4:22-24
Eph. 1:17-20
Let God’s Word permeate your mind and the prayers will come.
I also have frequently prayed that both I and my husband would be equipped with all the armour of God (Eph. 6) to shield us from the enemy’s attacks. And I have prayed a hedge of thornbushes around my husband (Hosea 2:6-7), that God would block his path when he goes in the wrong direction. I have seen direct answers to those prayers in startling ways.
If you feel called to do so, you could include periodic fasting in your prayers. Some demons only go out by prayer and fasting.
Bless you for praying for someone to whom you are not even married. I would advise you to keep your distance relationally however. Pray from a safe distance. Unless the Lord specifically leads otherwise, obviously. I have seen my children damaged so much by my husband and it just breaks my heart.
Thank you KC for your response and all the scriptures. I will copy them down. I am BELIEVING God for a breakthrough for Jim as he can be so wonderful at times, caring, thoughtful, and he has strong relationships with his three daughters who love him dearly. The oldest one though recognizes that her dad has a “disorder” (OCPD with narcissistic characteristics). I am at a distance as he has moved into a new relationship. But HOPE remains but God is in it!
It breaks my heart that my ex is so broken and still is manipulating the system to get the willing supply source he wants. He rejected all of our counseling and only went after several women dumped him. The one he is with now is facilitating his problem. All I want is to see God break through with the truth of His love for the man. He verbally abused me and our younger son, yet I want to see him truly saved and knowing Jesus as Lord.
Yes there is always Hope. Im not certain if I am a narc or not. But over the last couple of years I’ve noticed alot of this type of behavior in me. I don’t deny that it has to do with alot of my past. Single parent house hold .
But also alot of demonic activities around also
Recently ive gotten to a point where ive physically and emotionally hurt otjets.money problems etc.
I was recently starting to allow control over things to God but I goofed . I was in my repentance now im seeing how long this has been going on in my life. I would like real change in my heart . I pray that God and Jesus can thank you
Cole, thank you so much for sharing your personal struggles. Keep looking to your loving Heavenly Father. Jesus said on the cross “It is finished.” That meant the work of redemption was finished once for all. Jesus victory on the cross was enough for your total deliverance from this spiritual oppression we call narcissism. Believe in Him for your freedom. Claim the victory of the cross over yourself. Pray and put on your spiritual armor. It will take perseverance because the enemy has a foothold in your mind, but don’t give up. God Bless You.
I am a Christian. Married just a year and a half to my Christian narcissist husband. Is there any point in confronting them? Or am I forced to divorce and do what God hates. There are five kids involved and two are his. His two are angry and the other depressed. My three, see there’s major problem and want me to run. After reading the things I’ve read, I’m praying that when we go to see our pastor that my pastor will get a clue in his spirit that it is narcissism I’m dealing with and be able to help. Oh God, give me the grace to go through this. In Jesus name I pray.
Boundaries is a great read. Their teaching on divorce is: Is God really happy with dead or abusive marriages? Can we really fool God by staying together on paper?
You need your husband to support your boundaries. Your kids are probably seeing the situation more clearly than you are, which suggest that they are right and you need to run.
I’ll propose it differently. You need to be physically safe first. If that involves moving out, then move out. Then you need to deal with your emotional safety, which could be accountability with trusted friends who understand your situation. Don’t count on your pastor to be that person. Your husband may have already poisoned him against you, and the easiest path for your pastor will be to shove you back into the relationship, because that looks good and doesn’t take any work on his part. If you force him to pick sides, he will probably pick your husband. So, count on your trusted friends to provide the support you need. You may need to trust them more than you trust yourself because narcissists are going to gradually “boil the frog” – that is, remove you from your grounding to take advantage of you.
Amy, pray, pray, pray. My heart goes out to you. I don’t have an answer for you about confronting. I only know they are deeply hurting little children on the inside, terrified of rejection and abandonment. I hope and pray your meeting with your pastor went well and that the Holy Spirit did indeed give your pastor the insight to see what’s behind your husband’s mask. Narcissism is a spiritual battle. We do not war against flesh and blood. I could go on. I’m just getting into this subject as I have a loved one who has a “personality disorder” with narcissistic tendencies. There is hope for them. It’s Jesus. His victory on the cross was enough, even for the narcissist. God Bless you Amy!
Separate. You need to protect your kids. Move out, but make sure you don’t get lured in by his sweet talk to change. Lasting real change will take a major effort and big risk on his part and you will know, it won’t just be words or small gestures.
Thank you so much for writing this. I do believe I myself am a narcissist. I was adopted when I was about a year old, and have always been difficult. Over the years, I’ve used and abused my family. Then I’ve felt bad about it and isolated myself from them. And it’s been a constant battle all around. I don’t want to hurt my family, but there’s just something in me that won’t bend to follow the rules or to give in. And then there’s a cycle of trying to repent and fix it and grow as a Christian, but then I relapse back into narcissistic behavior. And for a long time I and my family have been confused and frustrated as to why I’m like this. I’ve always kind of known something just wasn’t quite right with my mind, how I think, and what motivates me. And now it’s come clear to me: I’m narcissistic. That’s still not good news by any measure, but at least I know what I’m dealing with. It’s so hard and so frustrating, but I know in my heart God can fix me. The hard part is letting Him fix me . . .
2Bananas, Thank you so much for sharing your heart! I am searching for people like you. It sounds like you are a true believer in Christ. Think about this, where and in whom do you think narcissism originated? If you guessed Satan, you’re absolutely right! He is the enemy of your soul and your MIND. There is healing for you, I know it! Is anything too difficult for God? Absolutely not. I am not a narcissist but know and love someone dearly who has OCPD with narcissistic tendencies which is why I’m so interested in this subject. It pains me that everything out there on the world wide web is so discouraging and most Christians are no more hopeful about this subject either. This should not be. God loves us all, narcissist or “normal” and what’s to heal us all and make us whole. If you ARE having trouble truly surrendering your all to Him to , as you say, fix you, I urge you to do so with great hope and excitement. knowing that freedom is waiting for you. MUCH prayer is essential. It is a spiritual battle. God’s Word says, “Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee.” James 4:7. This will take perseverance on your part, but it’s worth it! Memorize this verse and DO what it says, daily. Thanks again so much for sharing. God bless you!
Wow!!! This is the first article about narcissism that actually gives me real hope! My husband is a narsassist and he is currently in prison. Although he has made awful and heartbreaking choices – I can still say I care!!!!!! my husband has a huge heart. Therefore I don’t want to give up on him. The marriage may be over but his life and the legacy he leaves are still open to redeem. And as you said “The Lord can do anything”. Thanks for writing this.
I have been married for 20 years. We are both born again christians. For most of the marriage I was not really understanding why everything was always my fault and I was always such a bitch. During most of this marriage I also always felt like I was living with my mother but didn’t understand why. After 18 years of marriage I came across and article about narcissism. Light bulbs went off everywhere. My husband fell into every symptom and so did my mother. I continued to do more research and realized that there wasn’t much help for this type of disorder. I was devastated. I asked for a divorce and he refused so I stayed thinking it would work out. It didn’t. It only got worse. Really Worse. Sex was only on his time and absolutely did not value my existence. I really was only there as a fixture for him. Finally on November 18, 2015 I told him I no longer wanted him touching me. On November 19, he came into my room when I was asleep. I woke up and screamed because I was not expecting someone standing over me masterbating. Then he rapes me. I laid there for 3 hours crying. About 5 that morning I got out of bed and went to the sitting room when he slept on the couch. I asked him why he had done that to me and he said he was trying to apologize and then asked me if it felt good. The days that followed became dark. God was my salvation. I prayed and begged for an answered. I called my church and talked to a pastor and he told me to have him arrested and get a restraining order but I couldn’t hurt my children. Every avenue I tried all came up the same. I needed an attorney and I needed to get a restraining order. That was the only way I was going to get away from him. There was a big problem though. My husband is a divorce and child custody attorney. There are no self help books to guide you down this road. And unless your giving the narcissist everything he wants there’s going to be hell to pay for what you don’t. He always told everyone how wonderful of a wife and mother I was to everyone else but never to me (just the opposite). He did this so that others could see what a great father and husband he was, mutton dressed as lamb. So now he has filled many motions against me claiming me to be the unstable, unfit one. I am a born again christian and my relationship with God has only increased since removing my husband from my life. I don’t know which road is the right one. He has been verbally, emotionally, financially and sexually abusive for 20 years. He has no remorse for the rape and doesn’t see the pain he’s caused and he claims to be a Godly man. My pastor wants us to work on through the help of the church and has stated that only God can help him now. I don’t mean to sound negative but I don’t know that this man will ever change. I don’t feel safe with this person but my faith tells me I have to stay. I’m begging God that he release me from this torment because I can no longer bare it.
I believe, and my Abba Father has called me to this. I am a licensed and ordained minister. My husband complains that I am not kind and gentle. Among other things. This is the first time I have been in a situation like this. I am seeking and have found where my Father God wants me to go. My husband says he doesn’t want to change.
I believe how much I can apply what you said to my own life. I have been with a narcissist man for 5 years we are in our 20s btw I feel too God called me near to him thru the treatment I received from this man. I called to God thru all my sorrows and he delivered me Everytime. My story is a bit different this man is physically abusive I am at the point where I had to put him in jail and he seems to feel no remorse for what he did to me. I even had accepted he may take my life and I will just go to heaven that much sooner I was saved on a special day that I know it’s date. I don’t know if this is right way of thinking but now he is in jail I realize I need to pray for him more than ever constantly without ceasing for his soul. I love him so much I want him to change if not for me for his next partner. Our relationship has been chaotic all my family and his have distances themselves from us I don’t know whether to leave for good so he has no one and falls to God I pray or to be the last one standing i pity how no one is supportive of him. He realized he is a narcissist and has asked for counseling and we have been to 3 pastors and 2 counselors in this 5years. I received bad treatment on special occasions just as you did I bear a bite mark on my arm on my birthday 2 years ago had a foot injury head injury even been suffocated repeatedly during his rages. I wander does God have something to teach me using him as example or am I nuts to want to be committed to someone who is untreatable to many people. He had a grandmother who raised him and instilled the word of God very strongly in him as a young child so I have hope. I now believe God has separated us to create relationship with him on our own. I pray me and him come back together stronger or I at least do the right thing and pray for him to change so he can be in paradise one day I love him that much even if we are no longer a couple. I thank God so much for his grandmother she has given me hope for him and she bought us both our study Bibles as well she wanted us to have life and experience it fully. I have endured physical trauma emotional belittling he easily lies manipulates and has attempted cheating about 3 times even once was with my mother. We experienced and have overcome (7months sober) drug addiction together which has been a lot of our relationship. I just don’t know what God is telling me I don’t know why I have stayed with this man so long God has to be the reason cuz I have none. After every fight I long for his comfort and compassion and that is short lived till he expects things to return to normal. At the moment we have no contact and it’s hard but mayb the best or maybe I will get to see how he is without depending on me. Mayb he will hate me when he gets out max of 1 yr still waiting for trial. Maybe he will still want to be with me. He has never said he didn’t want to be with me thru all of the episodes. But then again who else does he have. I think if we get back together we should date for a long time not getting comfortable too quickly. I am just spilling out me heart sorry so long I love all of you on this site for seeking info on this disorder. I wish I could understand their minds I cannot make sense of them whatsoever. Any thoughts I would love to hear!!!
Katelyn, run as far away as fast as you can. Physical abuse is never justifiable. Even as a believer you should never have to endure it. This man does not love you. He wants to abuse you and suck the life out of you. It makes me sick to my stomach that you are talking about getting back together with him after he gets out. He does not love you and never has. NO ONE treats someone they love that way! His “Comfort and compassion” is just trying to suck you back into his control. Your families are wise to distance themselves. The best thing for him is to be completely abandoned by everyone and lose all of his supply and maybe then he can face himself…but I wouldn’t count on it. You are so young. Do not let him ruin your life. I have never been married to an N so I don’t understand it first hand, but plenty of people on this site have been. Read their posts and learn from their pain.
All I can do is hope and pray that the narcissist I was involved with finds Jesus and seeks professional help.Jesus will lead him to that.If not my prayers are with any woman who becomes involved with him.She will experience torment and my heart breaks for her.. Narcissism is the worst.And I was with the worst for 61/2 years.Thankyou God for leading me out.
Hello,
Thank you for this article. I would like to ask if you have any book suggestions that if read might change a narcisist or at least make him think deeper or see there is a problem. I am especially interested in christian books or books written from the christian perspective or by christian authors.
Thank you.
I have read a to. Of books in the subject and found Disarming the Narcissist the best. That and prayer every single day. I pray for me to have the grace to deal with it and I pray for change for my husband. The book I mentioned helped me to focus on my own contribution to the arguments and crazy that was happening and to live peaceably.
Thank you for the answer. Sounds like a good book for people who have to deal with a narcisist. I have to try it.
But I was think of a book for the narcisist to read, a book that might kindle him to change his ways. Because I am thinking of someone who is a narcisist but would not admitt it not even to himself. And I don’t even think it is a matter of admitting. I think he is not aware that he is a narcisist. And would see any suggestion that he is as an offense.
I refer you to the writings of Dr. George Simon:
http://counsellingresource.com/features/2011/02/24/disturbed-characters-dont-get-it/
Dr. Simon coined a phrase: “It’s not that they don’t see, they just disagree”.
Don’t waste your time trying to get them to “see”. It’s not your job to change them, or convince them of their need to change. It’s like the old saying: “If you get into a wrestling match with a pig, you’ll both get muddy & the pig likes it”.
This is very powerful and true. Thank you for your thoughts and advice
This is something I need to learn and integrate into my own thinking …
Thanks.
Matchbox September 12 2016. Amazing lot of letters and many very helpful. I’m married to a pastor only got an answer the last couple of years about Why. Why, are there so many questions for odd queer things happening I didn’t understand , as hubby is a fast talker and had all the answer for justifying his living and helping people which I quietly submitted too but many many things I didn’t agree as I was guided by the Word of God and didn’t usually express them to him , but what I did have was the peace of God the Joy of God a daring walk of Faith because I was carrying out what I understood. God was helping me to do , it has been incredibly wonderful his guidance His clear answers to my movements outside the house , prayer , fasting being meek , loving To obey doing what His word directs ,I choose what I say with His wisdom and to whom I share it with . believe me we have The Lord his wonderful Holy Spirit and God above all to help us ,what want we more , He loves Me and He loves You. (I have been made aware of Narccisisstics only in the last three years ) .but I now know he has had it for years and his Mum and Grandma had it too. In all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths . The Bible. Love and Gods richest blessings to all in The same boat as me. My prayers are for you and many on the big read of this web sight already 👏🏼 and thanks for your help too .
Thank you for this hopeful perspective. Please, what are the two articles to which you refer in this blog post? May I please have links to them? Thank you. The grace and peace of Yehshua our Lord continue to be with you.
Here you go:
I have just started counselling to help me come to terms with my mum’s narcisstic behaviour….thanks for your post…..I believe God wishes me to continue in a relationship with her.Thanks for encouraging me to keep praying for her….she is nearly 86….
I (wrongly) started dating a man almost 2 years ago, from the beginning I knew he was trouble,but there was instant chemistry (again wrong as a christian woman) but he talked about church, in fact we both live in FLA but are from the same town in NJ(we met on match( and he went to the same church, not when I lived there. He clearly was saved, I clearly was being disobedient. He also took his mother to church every Sunday – he always asked if I wanted to go, but I couldn’t – I was under such conviction that I knew there was no way I could enter God’s house after the things he and I were doing. But I pulled his church up on line and oh my word, spirit filled church, the real thing, full gospel. He sat in the 2nd row every Sunday and it blew my mind that he could not feel the presence of God in the worship and powerful message. I would ask him “what the the service was about’ and he could never answer. He was hung over and just doing this as a job. I fell in love with this person and he controlled and manipulated me for a over a year. I prayed and asked God to get me out of this mess, I could not walk away, I was mentally abused to the point that I was so depressed and lost. I had tried the no contact before I knew what that was. But kept going back, but it was like for a night, I was becoming what I now know the “fill in” when he was out of supply. Finally, in Sept of this year I had been through so much lies, and knew he didn’t love me – I hit something in google and found the narcissist psychopath sites and there it was in black in white – that was him. I was still so wrapped up in him that i googled “can a narcissist be saved” and could not find anywhere that it said yes…..The 2 years that I went through with this man, I knew I had back slided and was living in sin, I let him know this, but he had an answer for that, but I could not walk away….I have been through some big things in my life, but never something like this. I would stay with him over the weekend and come home and lay on the floor and cry to get out of this and I knew he was in church I prayed that the holy spirit would enter his heart……I am on 80 days NC and the biggest issue I have is “why did I go through this”….yeah it was wrong, I met him on match, I knew he was a bad man, and I stayed. I am now working on my codependency, but in my heart I know God heard me and the pain I went through and it was not for no reason….As far as can they be saved, I have to say yes – my son was a drug addict, and suicidal for almost 10 years – he lied, stole, was into porn, an atheist, shot up drugs, and was in the hospital because over of dosing dozens of time. I had nurses come out and said, he is not going to make it, brace yourself – we did everything to help him and then there was the day I just looked up and said “God I can’t do this any more”….that was the breaking moment that I realized I was praying but controlling the situation. And God took over —–my son is now a senior pastor and is ministering to people he knows the struggle he lived it – something I never prayed for, I only prayed he would not die. So Can a narcissist be saved, yes – Oh my word would I love to see my narc saved, not to get back with him, but for God to do a miracle and for Satan to take a walk – As I disconnect from my narc emotionally I am starting to pray for him – I may be the only person praying for his salvation – if I had to go through 2 years of hell with him to return to my relationship with God, then it was worth it – I need to not look at what he did to me, but how lost he is. This is my son’s story – I have read it over a 100 times, it gives me so much hope in my life – Let go and pray, but live your life for christ. http://nhanges.blogspot.com/
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My narc ex is full blown narcissist. Which means he lied the counselor and portrayed Fl be the victim and I the bad one. My narc doesn’t pray to god. He has not even an iota of feelings for god !! I left him many yrs ago. Yest I still haven’t put closure to it. I feel so sorry for him but I just Couldn’t take his lies his numerous affairs at One time with many of his supplies. My health and sanity meant a lot to me than HIS to be patient and hoping god will bring down a miracle on him. So I left. I suffer for narcissist victim syndrome and it is so painful There r days I find myself angry and wishing he left this world in a painful way. Thsn there r days (like today ) I am crying just at the thought that he is a poor soul who needs healing. No one and nothing but gods love mercy guidance and protection can help him. But after experiencing this traumatic relationship with my narc ex I feel that only a miracle will change my narc ex. I don’t understand though ,why am I begging god to bring this miracle when I need to be healing and moving on HAPPILY ??can anyone help with an answer ?I d truly appreciate it
You are begging God because you have His faith in your heart and know His grace and mercy, so of course, even when others have wronged us, true forgiveness that we can give is to pray for the other person and ourselves. I pray you grow in strength and courage to overcome these feelings you have. I read a WONDERFUL book on Narcissism by Wendy Behary that really helped me with my own feelings and to be able to not get caught up in the negative emotions of what my narcissist is doing to me.
In God’s love,
MM
I am a narcissist. I am a believer in JC. The repetitive horrific abuses from my dad, and my older brother left me with no options but to shrink away and let false self to live instead of me. Through much suffering I found Jesus but am still negative and hateful of my true self. Kids internalize any negative if they are not loved. So subconscious healing is key I know. I have been healed but am still going thru the healing of that makes sense. Thank you for your article. Narcissism from abuse is beyond words painful, rejection, my spirit was near death countless times. When the soul is at spiritual deaths door so many repeated times, the child subconsciously like almost dies. This leaves the “enemy” to live thru the person.
Allen, I am interested in how you know you are a narcissist. I have told several people that it is quite natural for the children of N parents to learn N techniques – whether they are narcissists or not. I hope you can find some good counsel to sort this out. Your true self now, if you belong to Jesus, is not the N behavior you have exhibited. It is the new life Jesus has given you in Him. So you want to reject your fleshly patterns of performance, rather than your self. You might want to read my posts on the flesh. I think it will help. Also, Nina Brown’s book “Children of the Self-absorbed” might be an encouragement in dealing with your heart issues.
I think a true dysfunctional narc is one who thru years of abuse, has this completely fragile child soul that is very hurt and damaged. Hence the false self. Like a child thinks, the false self becomes the hero in the child’s eyes. All knowing, socially strong, no weakness. Like a split , the horrified fearful extremely hurt child resesses into the sub conscious mind. The false self hates the inner child. I personally never developed a strong false self. Most narc’s, I believe do. the Lord Jesus saved me by allowing horrific events in my life to break my will, to reach my inner heart. I am forever greatfyl to HIM. Through suffering God shows us truth of his love. I had only known family who must torchure. Mentally, physically, no love only hate. I’m 50 years old and I’m still trying to let my heart trust and love others. I go into anxiety badly when I find myself wanting to love, trust. The Holy Spirit is sooo patient and loving with me. I adore him forever. I have much healing left tho. My heart is still very very very fragile.
I think the true narcissist I like me. That’s why I believe I am one. What do you think?
Also I was completely self absorbed only because I had to learn to protect myself. Being in a self protection mode all my life. I became selfish completely selfish. Desperately needing attention live from others. But because I could not/ would not give it, I did not/ could not receive it. Adoration from others is a substitute for real love. Narcs chose adoration because they are able to receive this (temporary) imitation of love without opening their own heart to love. Hence narcissistic supply it’s called because adoration is fleeting and empty but that’s ALL the narc can receive. The narc needs to be broken to be shown this truth. Our Lord saved me in EVERY way. I see so much. God has (I believe) given me this insite to myself.
Oh my goodness! This is the loving and more positive perspective about a narcissist that I believe in and have been trying to convey to my closest friends & family members, all of whom think I am crazy for wanting to believe there is hope for a narcissist! They went thru the pain along side me from my 3-year relationship with my former fiancé so I can understand their disdain and skepticism towards him. But praise be to God that HE encourages hearts like ours to go the extra mile to find a way to demonstrate the love of Christ and increase our trust & strengthen our faith to ask for a miracle to be bestowed upon these individuals who are suffering so much! Hurt people, hurt people!!! So the answer is not to continue hurting & punishing but to love & pray for them even more!!! I look forward to exploring more insight into how God can & will assist those who want to make a difference for all involved in the narcissists world! Thank you for sharing your thoughts, feelings & opinions!!! 😇💞🙏📖
Please care and forgive at an emotional distance! If there is no GENUINE fruit of the spirit (words don’t count) you must stay a safe distance. This advice is coming from a recovering narc. God bless !!
d
I want to say thanks for the encouragement I have received through reading many of these posts and comments this morning.I believe God is challenging me to continue to show forgiveness and grace towards my mum…..and to trust Him for it all.I am broken but recovering…..
I am off with “family related anxiety “.Everything came to a head this year and I am receiving counselling for the psychological/physical abuse I have suffered.My mum mocks me and denies everything .My golden child sister now believes me .I am the main carer for my mum..86….she now asks if there is anything she can do to help ..and three times she has stated it is her fault !I am in constant prayer over the situation and do not know whether she is genuinely being convicted or just playing games. Trying to have boundaries etc etc.
She withdrew all financial support for my wedding and I used to think it was because my husband and I are committed Christians but I realise that is just part if something much deeper. My son has served has been at bible school followed by serving with Youth for Christ in Vancouver Island . She cannot even congratulate him on his recent engagement and also has ni understanding how much we have missed him (we live in Scotland).
Sorry to ramble…..what I am really asking. is she just playing mind games since she is beginning to realise she only sees me if someone else is there and I now share little personal I formation with her….or is this prayer being answered?
Sally Craig: My mom was a psychopathic narcissist. Later in her life she asked me if I loved her. I could not answer her. She then asked if I hated her. I told her, “Hate is a strong word. I don’t hate you. I don’t feel anything”. Her reply was, “at least you don’t hate me”. I noticed she started to read the bible as she was nearing dementia/Alzheimer. She was still abusive to my dad (verbally and mentally). I believe before the total onset of Alzheimer she made right with God, which is fine with me. I want to see her in heaven. When I was overseas she apologized for being a ‘bad’ mom. Her behavior never changed. No she wasn’t physically abusive but she played mind games with me. She instigated arguments with my dad and I because she did not like it if I talked to him. Saying that I liked him more than her if I said more than one sentence to him. Then my dad would say go talk to your mother. I stopped visiting them for a while. Then later I would stay for about ten minutes and leave. I believe in my heart that she made it right with God and that is all I wanted her to do, same with my dad. He was abusive, physically, verbally and mentally towards me to make his wife happy.
To your answer: she admitted three times it was her fault and sometimes you take what you can get. Don’t give her your all, approach with caution and guard your heart. I believe my mom was so broken and so late in her life when she tried to change on her own without counseling that it just didn’t work. Her abusive behavior was normal for her. The mind games, she didn’t know any different. No one was there to tell her how to communicate and gain trust back with her daughter after years of abuse. It would take years of counseling to unlearn what is normal and unhealthy.
I know after my mom passed away I had a severe melt down for two weeks. When your abuser dies you have guilt, anger, bitterness, resentment, and shame running through you at once. Guilt for being happy that the witch is dead and shame for feeling that way, anger for the abuse I suffered, bitter because she kept doing it and resentment that she was my mom! I had to go back in counseling to process it. I asked the pastor at the visitation if she said she loved me. He said that he didn’t have that conversation with her. Two years later I saw the pastor and he stated that he felt so bad for me. I told him I had recovered after two years of counseling. You see all I wanted to hear from someone is how she loved me. She said she loved me growing up then ten minutes later she spent the hours and days telling me how much she hated me and was physically, verbally, mentally, emotionally and sexually abusive. I worked through this over the years. I just want you to realize if you have a major melt down when your mom passes understand that is normal when you have been traumatized as a child. My dad is in a nursing home. I don’t see him much and I am okay with that. He apologized for abusing me and that was all I wanted to hear. It is too late to try to form a bond (working through this with my therapist because I don’t want another melt down like I had with my mom).
thanks for your reply…..one of the hardest parts to deal with was that she cancelled all my wedding plans and to be honest she cannot explain why…my youngest son just got engaged and she has yet to congratulate him…..my counsellor days that this is what to accept!despite much prayer and weeks of counselling it opens up so much hurt.I have been given Grace to forgive …
Georgette…thanks for your reply…..one of the hardest parts to deal with was that she cancelled all my wedding plans and to be honest she cannot explain why…my youngest son just got engaged and she has yet to congratulate him…..my counsellor days that this is what to accept!despite much prayer and weeks of counselling it opens up so much hurt.I have been given grace to forgive …
It is my opinion that your mom was being cruel by canceling your wedding plans and not congratulating your son on his engagement – controlling you. Jezebel/narcissist are pure evil! Break your spirit and you become clay in their hands. I believe no-contact is the best medicine for you and your children. I’m not a therapist, I was raised by a psychopathic narcissist and dated a narcissist for four years. I had to go no contact with my sister, mom, and dad while I was in therapy. I got stronger but did the minimalist contact after therapy and to this day it is maybe talk to my sister five times a year. My dad who is in a nursing home is down to once a year for maybe 30 minutes, long enough to fool aunts and uncles to look like we are one happy family.
I would like to believe there is hope…more than anything in the world. I have encountered about 10 narcissists ovr the course of my life. That means pulling my life back together after 10 devastating discards. I spent hours and hours and hours praying for my love to return each time except for the last 2 narcs. All in vain. I present myself as a sweet doormat, so narcs sniff me out. Truth is, i am very strong with a good self esteem and healthy boundaries. Thats why i wish i could get at least a hoover that everybody keeps talking about. Thanks to the internet i finally had my eyes opened to NPD. In the days before google and youtube i had no idea what just hit me. Based on everthing i read over and over and my own experience over and over i can only conclude that in the case of NPD there is NO HOPE…at least not in this earthly life. I dream of seeing all my loves again someday where pain and suffering is no more and all our wounds are finally gone forever. I feel like i have already asked God for help so much but im going to be stuck in this relentless cycle myself. My grandmother always used to say that we are not supposed to as “why?” All i ask for now is the strength to accept God’s will….and for the meds to help me.
I still want to know if they know they are lying. My narc husband (soon to be ex) lied openly in court, without missing a beat. Does he know that he lied? After 10 years, I still can’t tell.
Oh, they know!! Does your husband ever tell 1/2 a story and get annoyed if you can’t keep track of all the characters (like he said, then he said, then he said — and you’re supposed to follow each “he”?)?
Do you ever bring up something he did that bothered you, and he responds by pointing out the very tiny detail that he did right and accuse you of making the rest up?
Biggest test— have you ever heard him tell the truth WHEN IT BENEFITS HIM to OTHER PEOPLE???
They know their audience.
I’ve read the article and all the replies here… and I’m praying for everyone who wrote and their situations. Lots of revelations here. One thing stands out to me that is often overlooked: Narcissism is a disorder on a SPECTRUM. From selfish, manipulative Narcs with an impaired conscience … to evil psychopathic Narcs with no conscience. Perhaps the ones who wrote here stating they are recovering or wish to recover, are those lower on the scale, whose consciences allow self-reflection, and I am so grateful and filled with hope to see this.
I’ve also read that narcissism is not necessarily always a response to childhood trauma; sometimes it comes from parents over-praising a child and lifting them too high on a pedestal, away from the consequences of their behavior. Trauma typically produces “covert” Narcs while the over praising produces “overt” (grandiose) Narcs. (But again, it’s not always that black and white either, as we are complex beings.)
I have known so many narcs, my dad, my cousin, my boss, countless boyfriends, and even wonder if being a co-dependent love addict makes me an “inverted” narcissist. Labels, labels, I know it helps for us to give meaning and words to our experiences, but I think the best we can do is stay far from anyone that our intuition says is “toxic” and PRAY without ceasing -from afar. In the case of marriage and family commitments, relying on God, our intuition, professionals and good friends to advise us.
God sees where all of us are, on the spectrum, and sees all kinds of other areas that may co-exist with narcissism. He’s seen every day of our life since our conception in the womb, and knows every detail of us intimately. He knows exactly how to deal with each one of us to bring us grace for healing… to become more like Christ
My prayer is this: “please heal everyone who’s ever hurt me, and everyone I’ve ever hurt. Please forgive us all, and lead us all to mercy and grace for your glory.” Also the Hawaiian ho’oponopono: “I’m sorry, please forgive me, thank you, I love you.”
Keep your eyes focused on Jesus. He is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we can ever ask or think… Eph 3:20
there is hope
I’m so glad to have stumbled upon this site, it really is quite refreshing reading comments by others who have a deeper understanding of Narcissism.
There is a lot written about Narcissism and NDP these days and science has coined it as a psychological personality disorder. Words such as hoover, supply, gas lighting, and no contact have become colloquialisms. This is a shame because there is another side to the story and there is not much literature written about it unfortunately. The ‘disease’ of narcissism is mainly spiritual. NDP has existed in the psychological realm for the last century but over a thousand years ago spiritual fathers and saints in the orthodox faith knew well of this spiritual disease or passion which they called Philautia. Persons suffering with this disorder, and yes they do suffer, have a burdened soul and are constantly in battle. There is hope for them. I have seen it with my own eyes. If you have encountered such a person in your life it wasn’t by chance. If you have had to remove yourselves from their life for your own safety and sanity this is understandable. But you must always pray for them, for their soul is oppressed. Always pray for your protection and for their enlightenment. I wish there were more people and personal stories of narcissists recovering because they are actually miracles. I know because I have witnessed many and was one myself.
They say (who are THEY, really?) there is no cure for Narcissists. That they are a lost cause. But this couldn’t be further from the truth.
“The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.”
Luke 18:27
Never lose hope.
Just another reply re our wanting answers how to help and live with Christian narcissists, I’m just encouraged that always there are answers to help in God , to live at peace with a difficult disposition because I am only one of many in the same situation . First . Love. Covers a multitude of sins . How many times have I been forgiven my sins! (Definitely 7×77) so having arrived at love and mercy from God. ) I Understand (vitally important ) get understanding if you have need from the Lord. . Because you can handle this person who has a huge problem . You will make it fine. With Gods incredible help. 1 be a Listener be quick to move away when it’s heavy ,he doesn’t notice , even say I will make you a cuppa. (You don’t even have to have one yourself ) 2 . Take yourself off for a walk , work , visit , don’t say who you are seeing , briefly give any information of your whereabouts , shopping is ok , when making phone calls do so in your parked car and always away from home , spend time in another room if possible , reading the Word or anything that is the truth, . :3 When visiting pray and have faith that the Lord will “cover you ” . In your comings and goings , as He wants you to Trust him , you will be amazed At Gods goodness , as you step out and go and come home.. (As your husband or wife will not like you visiting people ? ) If he asks say you parked the car for awhile and on occasions do that, and take time out to pray or play hymn music on your own so that you grow strong in the Lord. , If you even need a holiday on your own , for health reasons, or catch up on family further away , go. , he may not even ask you anything about what you saw or who, as his mind is short interested in you , or other people , and not much is of interest, 4. As a Christian you will be singing around the house as Holy Spirit gives you comfort that way , really special and you will be encouraged in your soul and even husband or wife will be affected and join in with a bit of a “Hum too” . Didn’t King David play his harp to Saul to calm him. So truly God will lead you all the way, remember too to have a praying friend. And someone who you can be trusted or lovely family members that help you . “I can do ALL THINGS THROUGH CHRIST JESUS WHO STRENGTHENTHS ME – GODS WORD .
I do NOT believe that staying with an abusive narcissist is what God calls for us to do. Marriage is NOT more important than you the individual. If you are married to someone who cannot put God at the forefront and he/she is abusing you, I believe that God calls for us to get out. You can still pray for the narcissist and find joy in the Lord, but can you do that tethered to Satan? We are not meant to be tied to the devil. No way, no how.
Good point, Marilyn. I was with a deaf narc bf for 12.5 yrs; the last 6 years, his narc ways started to show up little by little. I was raised in the church and believing in Jesus. I refused to marry my bf because
I knew myself being redeemed with Jesus and him being evil, our marriage would be living hell for me. I have always kicked him out of house or broken up with him too many times. He was the one who crawled back to me. I just grew tired of him and did the no contact and changed my phone numbers. I have no spoken to him in four years.
I totally agree with you Marilyn!
I didn’t marry the N because after talking to his third wife and experiencing the following: silent treatment if you disagree with him, especially about money! That is an instant silent treatment. You just could not disagree with him at all without getting the silent treatment! His porn addiction and sex addiction was not appealing either. Again we broke up 13 times in four years. As he put it: when it was good it was really good (meaning when he got his way it was good), but when it was bad it was really bad (meaning when I stood up for myself then it was my fault). He never took responsibility for anything. It was the military’s fault that he got kicked out. It was the guy’s fault that he didn’t get a promotion b/c the guy made him mad and he almost killed the guy. It was all three wives fault that he got a divorce.
I kept a journal of our relationship and kept in constant prayer asking God to reveal this N to me. Once I realized his issues I asked for an escape. He provided it. I didn’t like the outcome but being married would have been hell! He found his fourth victim.
I am not sure that narcissists can be healed. I would have given anything for God to come through with a miracle and heal my soon to be ex husband.
The moment we came back from the honeymoon the narcissistic rages began.
The financial abuse began. So did the 1 to 3 hour long verbal assaults and the chronic demeaning and criticizing of me as a human being.
He was a Pastor and a Christian.
So I believed god could do anything-and that God actually would do something!
I went to marriage groups and conferences, opened up about my own issues and went to therapy for myself.
He got worse
I found out he had been clinically diagnosed with NPD 13 years prior to our wedding, during a court case with the mother of his child.
I found out I was woman number six he had abused in this way.
I think this kind of talk is misleading
That God actually heals these kinds of people? I’ve never seen it
Have you?
Police were contacted three times in nine months after his rages.
My job, kids, home, ministry, finances, and future where directly threatened by this man
He never hit me
He didn’t have to- his words, which were many, did more to damage me than any fist
It seems dangerous to lead women to believe that God can heal these kinda of people rather than saying that these kinds of people are evil and to run from them!
Hello wow so profound, I have seen many characterics of Narissm in my behavior. I am born again but at times especailly in relationship I am a woman the other party finds hard to live with, because I am very jealous. I perceive things that doesn’t exist. Like I have tendecencies of a pphyco I get extremly anxious and will snop on my partner on social media. Being afraid that he might be cheating, though his not the feeling of betrayal is so intense I believe it. To me he can’t talk to other People either then me and that’s jus not normal. I accuse him a lot of cheating and I was even called ” an agent of Saran” to take away his peace and joy.
I’m really not proud of this behavior and I want to be normal and die to my selfishness. Being selfless actually. It’s a journey that I pray God can reveal to us the balm to heal the protection barrier narassist carry. That its okay not to be correct always. It’s okay not to have it all together. And your right Iv done a lot of research and most of them give solutions to the victims. I pray that someone out there will have the balm to help people like me and I believe that balm is Jesus.
Shalom
Thank you for your post. I have come to the realization that my daughter may have this disorder. Lack of compassion and sympathy for others that she has hurt is a reaccuring theme. I have always tried to reason with her. But it always ends up with her getting defensive. It does not make sense in my mind how easily she is ok with hurting people’s feelings. I recently rededicated myself to God. As hard as it is, he has been telling me to stop trying fix everything for her. I need to allow Him to work in her life without my interference. Maybe I have been a big part of the problem through out her life? I don’t know. But reading your article gave me hope. I will just keep loving her and praying she can receive God in her heart and allow Him to help her. It is so much better His way. Thank you for writing this. All the other literature I found was pretty bleak.
Angela I agree with your decision to leave it to God to show your daughter the error of her ways. I had the same problem with my Narcissit husband. I too was always trying to fix things until God showed me that I’m to leave everything to Him. We separated for three years, in the time we were apart I prayed and continued to love him as the Bible teaches us. We are now back together, he is much kinder and is in control of his anger. He hasn’t accepted Jesus but I continue to pray that in time he will. I could write a book on the destruction my husband caused me and his children, but we are in a place right now that healing is taking place for us all. God did not answer my prayers when we initially separated because he had to deal with my husband, but he did answer my prayers in His time not mine. Now I give everything to God and try not to worry about the things that I know I can not change. I pray in time your daughter too will understand that there is a price she will pay for any wrong doing. Just continue to let her know how much you love her, but set boundaries when she treats you with disrespect.
Manola, what an encouraging testimony! I’m so glad you shared it. I hope it gives hope to not just Angela, but to everyone here.
It was comforting to read this article, and I’ve tried for over 4 years to love my ex narc because I was a broken human being and I wanted so desperately for our relationship to work out, I always believed that because I was abused in my life both as a child and as an adult that if I could just make this relationship work I would feel whole again throughout my relationship with him he has weaved himself in and out of my life repeatedly and our relationship never lasted beyond the three-month point only to be followed by 3 months of the silent treatment or discard only to have him come back again and things would be okay or at least the same for a very short. Of time only to have him leave once again I never in my life have ever heard of narcissism and I must have been a perfect victim but I tell you the love that I had for this man was very real at least to me it was we talked about a future together and possibly purchasing a home together and I have saved on my own throughout our entire relationship to have money to put down on a home well I finally had enough when he started saying hurtful things and I asked him to leave and I discovered that he purchased his own home for himself last month and I never heard from him again I have healed little by little daily and have been educating myself on narcissism as I believe now that my mother was a narcissist causing me to go through abuse and not protecting me which kind of made me pray 2A narcissistic relationship my heart breaks for him after I’ve discovered the truth. I know the Lord can do anything, I’ve tried over the years to get him to come to the Lord and each time he told me that he believes in his own way the guilt that I have felt being in a sinful sexual relationship with a man who was not my spouse was getting to me so again I believe that nothing is impossible for the Lord there is a part of me that I know deep down this man will not in his own accord go to the Lord
i just recently came to the realization that i have a lot of narcissistic tendencies. i accepted Jesus into my life many years ago and for the past 40 years i really thought I was saved. I went through all the motions and truly believed i trusted God. 2 years after my salvation, I became severely depressed with anxiety and fear. I read the Bible a lot but it never went into my heart, so I read more….I even prayed in tongues. For awhile I really was deceived into believing everything was ok because everyone who knew me thought I was a wonderful person. I did everything right and good. Even my boys loved me and treasured me. But I kept going into major depressive states with lots of fear that I couldn’t exp!ain. This started my quest to find out what was wrong with me.
I had many deliverances done. I thought I could get rid of the spirit of fear and I would be fine, but nothing worked for me. I went into spiritual warfare but I never received any relief. I was so deceived by demons I divorced my husband and had a 10 year affair with another man. At this point I became really frightened and thought that my salvation could not real. After that I repented and had another deliverance done. This time it was by a very anointed man of God but i couldn’t be delivered again. Only this time he told me I was a witch, I didn’t believe in the true Jesus, God was angry at me and that my tongues were demonic. I was in shock and had a total breakdown. Before this deliverance i started to feel that I needed to love God more. I realized that I couldn’t receive God’s love or anyone else’s love for that matter and that I really didn’t have much empathy. My relationship with Jesus was just me talking to Him and not even consciously realizing that I didn’t even expect Him to answer me. After the deliverance I became severely depressed again and full of fear. I researched everything for years to understand what my problem was. I knew something was wrong and it took me this long to figure it out.
Right now I’m living alone in one room depressed and full of fear because I know that I am not saved. I cry out to God day and night to save me, to give me faith and to help me know His love. I want Him so badly but something demonic in me is resisting the BLOOD OF JESUS and I can’t rebuke it because I don’t have the power of Jesus living inside me. I ask God to help my unbelief.. I don’t know how to go on like this. I want so much to know the love of Jesus that at times it feels as if my heart is breaking. My heart is hard but I yearn for God to soften it. Please, I’m just asking for suggestions and for prayer. I need Jesus so badly, I want to see His face and know His love for me. I can’t believe it’s too late for me but If God is angry at me I have no hope….Thank you for your prayers.
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Jane…maybe just cry out to God and say….Jesus, Thou Son of David, please have mercy on me and deliver from this, in the Name of Jesus. And repent of every thing you can think of.. that you have done wrong and tell Him how you want Him to fill you with His Spirit and that you want to follow Him with all your heart and listen for Him to speak peace to you. Then by faith….believe that you are delivered.
Oh Lea, I lived such a fake, hypocritical life before God as a “Christian” that I know I have been a terrible witness for Him. 40 years sitting in spirit filled churches, praying, praising, doing spiritual warfare and never getting it into my heart. I can’t believe I didn’t know. It’s beyond comprehension to me and Jesus’ grace must have run out on me by now. How could I have been so delusional??? If I’m not saved I’m not even sure He hears me. I know my children love me, my family loves me, my sisters love me God loves me but i can only receive it in my head never in my heart. I so desperately want to experience God’s love. I can only imagine it but I know it must be awesome and life changing. I WILL continue to cry out to Him even though I know there’s evil demonic activity going on inside me. I can feel it. My pillows are soaked from my tears. Thank you for your response…
I recommend that you read the following two books by Neil T Anderson: Victory Over the Darkness and Bondage Breaker! From what you are saying start with Bonage Breaker. You will need to rebuke the enemy because he won’t want you to see the truth! I’m reading The Bondage Breaker right now. I will be praying for you, that you will be released from bondage.
Hello my names Chantal my covert narccism is getting out of Hand, I am living in a home with a woman. Who took me in because I was homeless and got kicked out of my exes moms home for being rebellious. I became honeless and thank god this woman at a recovery program allowed me into her home but I am finding it hard moving on. I am literally thinking everybody and everyone is out to get me, I also was saved at 19 years old by Jesus Christ then fell right back into sin a lot and have been chastened ever since but now it’s just absolutely crazy in my mind I look completely sick, I am gone as antisocial as anything it’s impossible for me to break out from this thing I’m in and ask for help.
Ha. Everything you said is the truth. If a malignant narcissist the hope of changing into an empathetic, intimate person- let’s face it- is astronomical. Psychodynamic therapy, prayer, bible is not enough to overcome NPD. It takes a soldier in Christ to overcome. 1 out of a million have the makeup to overcome
Let me explain why. Tapping into childhood memories- first and foremost- is a huge struggle. These memories are not simply pushed aside they are buried from deep within and extremely difficult to remember for him.
See, narcissists have a front they put on that guards hem from being hurt. Just like everyone else. Everyone has a degree of narcissism. If your not perfect you have an Ego. And check it out, this front they put on and show the world is all they have. To get rid of it would be the end of their narcissism. The cool thing is if this happens the narcissists soul and authentic self remain untouched, ready to emerge in a very, very loving, wise and unbiased way.
But For then to remove the front knowing the devil is present in other humans ( they see other people’s defects so incredibly well) would be a bigger risk then jumping out of a airplane with no parachute and hoping to survive. It can be done though.
I also believe literature is of no use to a narcissist. No matter how many character buildings books he reads. Knowledge for a narcissist avails nothing.
A narcissist must not try and embark on a personal endeavor by himself. Reading books, prayer, church all helps to a degree but none of that shit cuts deep deep deep in the core. None of it.
Psychodynamic therapy #enough said
I agree please help me with my issues everyone in my life gave up on me and I’m too alshame to ring
Chantelle you can believe Gid is greater than your problem . He Jesus listened to some of the most abusive conversations about Himself and His people from the Pharisees most of them were terribly narcissistic. He didn’t spend much time talking to them and gave such amazing answers , they could not answer most of the time . Or Jesus walked away , But seek the presence of God He knows your your every move and Loves You. he made you in His Image . And He alone can save you . By His Salvation through “believing” in the Lord Jesus Christ and that His precious blood being shed for you on Calvary. No one else can save you . He puts it into our heart when we help others He uses us any many many other people to do His work while passing through this life Serving HIM , what a thought ful loving God. . On with the Fasting xx from my end and others who would like to make that small sacrifice . EAU.
Chantal there is hope – telephone to Glory the Lord loves us to talk to Him , I’m praying to him and Fasting like many others in a time of desperation for those we love. Even this morning I saw a breakthrough with person happy and singing hymn , I certainly know it was Holy Spirit who put that song in their mouth . Be still God is with you in the trial .
The word of God is sharper than any two edged sword and can Pierce to the dividing assunder of soul and spirit….
Only the word of God can separate a narcissist from the demon that controls them. How they would get that word in their human spirit is a mystery but there, that’s the only solution.
I don’t know that it is possible except by the extraordinary grace of God and his outstretched arm. Outside that, no amount of therapy can change them.
If the word of God gives them value, self worth and love from within then they can change.
I speak as someone who has known one for a while…. They suffered terribly in childhood and had to split personalities to cope…
Steizy , that was sound advice and God given . You named it they can change by reading the word and believing it. For demons will only go with prayer and fasting Mathew-17v 21 disciplines might just bring the breakthrough of Gods power and provision and presence. seek Him. God loves us to be strong in Him and seek Him .