Lying

It’s Narcissist Friday!

Narcissists lie.  It comes as naturally to them as breathing.  If you don’t understand this, you will struggle.

I remember many years ago, when I was in college, overhearing a conversation between a friend and his girlfriend on the phone.  She was “back home” and he used our phone to call (yeah, the olden days).  I wasn’t eavesdropping and just heard a small part of the conversation where he was telling her the grades he had received.  The only problem was that I knew the truth about his grades.  They were not anywhere close to what he was telling her.

Ever since that day, I have wondered what it would have been like to begin a life-long relationship based on lies.  Some of you know all too well.  At first the stories are impressive, but as you begin to learn more of the truth you begin to wonder.  Pretty soon you don’t know what was true and what was not.

I know a man who didn’t tell his “second” wife that she was really the third.  She didn’t find out until his daughter contacted him, a daughter she knew nothing about.  I know a man who caused his wife to miscarry through physical abuse.  He stood in front of her and the church leadership and denied anything ever happened.  I know a man who sold a piece of machinery to two different people then left town.  When the two men went to pick up the one piece of machinery, they learned the truth.

In each of these cases, the victims were so shocked at the audacity and the pain that they did nothing.  The liar went merrily on his way without real consequence.

For most of us, the lies of the narcissist are so foreign to the way we think and live that the shock and confusion numb us in our response.  We simply cannot play at that level.  The narcissist is so far beyond anything we can handle by simple confrontation.

You see, when most people lie, we can point out the truth and end it.  They might admit the lie, call it a mistake, or just shut up; but the process ends.  It doesn’t end with the narcissist.  If you catch the narcissist in a lie, he/she will simply tell another lie to cover it.  Or argue with the truth.  Or accuse you of something.  Or attack you with such venom that you back away terrified.  It doesn’t just end.

Lying is part of who the narcissist is.  He lies about his accomplishments.  He lies about his plans.  He lies about the obstacles in his way.  He lies about what he is doing and what he has done and what he will do.  Once the truth starts to unfold, the ground under you disappears and you feel yourself falling into a pit of deception.  That’s what life with the narcissist can be.

I have known narcissists who will choose a lie when the truth would do just as well.  The lie comes easier than the truth.  People have told me stories of how the lies were totally unnecessary, but came anyway.  It seems to me that the bottom line for some narcissists is that the risk of the truth is so great that lies are always better.  And, when the narcissist is finally gone, the whole thing seems like a bad dream because so much of it was never real.

I suppose I should make it clear that I am not saying all narcissists lie.  Some deceive and hide in other ways.  But this is such a common thread, that anyone in a relationship with a narcissist should be on guard.  This is one of the most consistent behaviors noted among those who have narcissistic characteristics.

There are reasons narcissists lie.   Remember that the narcissist is hiding, frightened that someone will know too much and be able to control.  Remember also that no person really exists to the narcissist.  Would you worry about a lie told to a chair or a hammer?  If the person you are talking with is not a person like you are, then lying is easy.  (If you are a spouse, that is a grim and painful thing to understand.)  And a lie gives the liar power.  As long as the truth is hidden, there is a sense of control that is maintained.  That’s why narcissists will sometimes lie just to see if they can get by with it.

So how do you stop the narcissist from lying?  You don’t.  You might be able to make certain lies unprofitable but I don’t think you or any counselor can convince a narcissist to stop lying.  (Yes, I believe God could still change any heart, but it would take a miracle.)  If you are in the beginning stages of a narcissistic relationship, you might as well face the truth now.  The lies will be part of your life together.

But you can decide not to take the lies personally or to trust the narcissist.  I know that’s sad, but once you understand what the real battle is, you have an advantage.  Understand that this is very natural for the narcissist and don’t let your foundation rest on trusting him.

From my perspective, only the love of the Lord is trustworthy.  Narcissists are part of our world, even a reflection of the brokenness of the world, and we have to find the foundation for our lives in Someone else.  Politicians, bosses, friends, family, even spouses sometimes use lying to get what they want.  But there is One who does not deceive, whose love is real.

38 Comments

Filed under Narcissism

38 responses to “Lying

  1. As always, great words and perspective on this difficult issue. Thank you.

  2. Portia Gray

    Well spoken.

  3. K

    Wow. I don’t thank you enough for what you do here, Pastor Dave. For me, there’s real comfort in knowing that you not only understand the tragic reality that is narcissism, but also, speak about it gracefully, courageously and truthfully. Perhaps more importantly, my trust is building in your words, even Saturday through Thursday (which says a lot)!

    By the way, I’ll be making a contribution today.

    In appreciation, K

  4. Maggie

    As usual I am comforted by your thoughts here Pastor Dave. Some Fridays I am more capable than others to excepting what is put forth in your writings. Today, I have a weak feeling in my stomach when I think of all the lies, particularly the very beginning lies in pre-engagement counseling, engagement and walking down the aisle (not to mention 25 years more of it). It is disturbing today to be reminded of the audacity to lie to get what one wants, never taking into account what another has the right to. It is very sick and sad as the N is so very wounded him/herself . Still after 2 plus
    years of the awareness of his lying I cannot get my mind around it. That is when I just must accept. What a baffling disease.

  5. Carolyn

    What a timely post…and it continues to amaze me when I receive my emails about “Narcissist Friday” from Grace for my Heart…when I read the title…I say to myself “oh my goodness…yes!”. Very affirming.
    Even though my ex-N and I have now been divorced for 6 months…he has continued to lie about so many things to me. Big things – small things – it doesn’t seem to matter. When I call him on it…he appears the he could care less about it. For some reason, being a liar doesn’t really seem to bother him.
    I pray that someday his behaviors (not just lying) disgust him enough that he wants to change for his own sake. I just don’t see that happening for another human being (whether it was me as his wife, or his new girlfriend, or his children). So sad…really very sad to see all the fallout and aftermath of being involved with someone like this.
    We need to keep praying for them – and I totally agree with Pastor Dave that it will take a miracle to change their hearts…but then God is in the business of doing just that.

  6. Lauren

    This really resounded with me! For so many years my husband’s lies were brushed off as a ‘different perspective’, kind of like the differing accounts of the Resurrection morning according to the order of whoever got to the tomb. Finally, the lies have gotten so huge & tragic, the explanations are almost comical if they weren’t so disturbingly hurtful. Ns must really believe that every one else is a complete moron, hence the verbal foolishness that spews forth. If it wasn’t for 6 kids, I’d be out in a heartbeat.

  7. Onward

    Liar, deceiver, accuser working to kill, steal, destroy…sound familiar?

    Pastor Dave, your blog is invaluable to those struggling with an N and those struggling to break free. Your topics are dead on and serve as confirmation to some and a needed living reminder to others that this is an actual species living amongst us. Your blog provides strength and comfort as we thankfully (although regretfully) understand that we are not alone in this struggle. You pragmatically express the truth of our experiences and that indeed lays the foundation for our emotional and sometimes physical freedom. I soon came to the reality of your statement “The narcissist is so far beyond anything we can handle by simple confrontation.”

    I don’t mean to appear melodramatic, however, I feel as if those of us who have encountered this unwelcomed battle are on the front lines of a smoldering war. I take refuge in Eph 6:10 – 17 and encourage us all to lift our shield of faith as we walk through what I recognize to be a spiritual war. Holdfast and be encouraged, we win!

    • Whisper

      I believed the lies from my N husband for years because he is so eloquent in speech and delivery. He can expound at lengths on any topic and presents himself as the authority on all subjects. He’s a master at twisting stories and events to suit his needs. I”m just speechless as he recalls events from his point of view of the N liar. I’ve often asked myself, “Why did he just lie about that?” Now I realize it’s a characteristic of the N. He always has to look good and he will lie to create & maintain the “grand” image. It’s so sad. I’m constantly trying to get a straight answer from him.

      • Repol

        I believe the lies because it is unfathomable that a person can lie that easily, regularly. About anything. I know every one of us has said some untruth at some point(s) in life. But the general bent of most of us who’ve been raised with any morality is NOT to lie. We generally tell the truth and it’s good enough. The lying really is the biggest thing that keeps me on the verge of insanity because the world is always shifting.

  8. Fellow Survivor

    Lets see. Where to begin. All of my exes lies were about “where are you going, who will you be with, and what will you be doing?” Pretty typical information a spouse or parent should know about , whether it be their spouse going out or their teenage child. The EX loved to PARTY. The first big lie that I let slide was about 20 years ago. We were married 23 years. She was a member of a woman’s group that met once a week. Sometimes all the ladies would plan a trip and rent a bus or fly to a destination. Usually about 8 to 10 ladies, a large group. I had absolutely no problem with that. They even went to Vegas on one trip. Then one day she tells me there is a trip with this group to somewhere, I can’t remember, but a shopping trip just like all the others. Well, not exactly, there was no trip planned. It was just her and her bad girl friend that wanted to hit the night clubs in another town, just the two of them. With a large group of ladies, someone will always “tell” whats going on, but with two bad girls, both misbehaving, not so much. Anyway I busted her on that easily. Lots of other lies also, but the one that killed the marriage happened 2 years ago.

    The Ex would go to New York to “Shop” with a girl with very bad judgement. This lady smuggled pot in her purse on the plane on Oct 30, 2001. Anyone Fly during that time? 6 weeks after 9-11. Its was pretty tight security, much worse than even today. This bit of information just sets the stage. Remember, they were just going to NY to shop. But then I found a piece of paper with 4 of the hottest night clubs in NY written on it. I asked her if she goes to night clubs and she said no. Then I showed her the paper and she said, well maybe once.

    I foolishly allowed this to go on for several more years before I forbid the ex from going to NY with this woman ever again. If she did I would tell her employers that she is friends with her. That made her think twice, where she works has a morality clause and she could be fired for hanging out with this lady.

    Anyway, I finally told her she can not go to NY with anyone but me. If she ever goes with bad girl again I will divorce her. We went one year and actually had a pretty good time. The next year she says we will meet her sister. The ex will stay for 4 days and me for 2. The last two days for the ex to spend with her sister alone. The sister is OK, not a party animal. Anyway, I check my phone records when I get home and what do I see. When my flight is leaving NY at 11 AM on a Sunday, Bad girls flight is leaving our city at the same time, but heading for NY. When I confront the ex when she gets home she says she does not know what I am talking about. I show her proof that bad girl was there. The ex says, “well nothing happened, we just had dinner with some of bad girls gay friends” Oh, that made me feel so much better.

    Anyway, that was the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back for me. Although we had intimate moments after that, I could never really trust her ever again, and I knew it. There was no trust connection, I could not believe a word she said. We just spent the last 2 years going through the motions. How can you be married and in love with someone you can not trust? YOU CAN’T. And that is the problem. Ladies, I am maybe the exception, I don’t know, but I love being in love. I adored and cherished my ex like you would not believe.

    My friend of 39 years has seen her out and about town with other men. He knows what kind of men they are. He told me, “one day she is going to regret the decision she has made and come back to you” “DON’T TAKE HER BACK, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES” That’s what he told me.

    As time goes by I begin to see her for who she truly is. I don’t deserve what she has dished out to me, and she does not deserve me. Let her have the bad boys that will treat her like junk.

    For all of you out there reading this, thank you. I will look for someone that exhibits the FRUITS OF THE SPIRIT and demonstrate them by their acts consistently when I seek my new love.

  9. Renay Skov

    I began a relationship with an extreme narcissist about a year ago. He was new in town and wanted to meet new people We met through a friend who informed him I had not seen anyone since my husband’s death. I caught a few lies in the beginning but he was the most charming adorable man I have ever met, so I chose to ignore them. I wondered why we were just friends and then the first bomb dropped. He claimed an ex girlfriend contacted him and wanted to move out and try their relationship again. He gave a grand speech about all he has is his word and he told her she could move out but never thought she would. Turns out they were engaged before he moved here and she planned on moving out all along. When she got here he claimed she was horrid and crazy and they broke up. Although she stayed another three months. What happened there I can’t even imagine. This poor girl quit her job and moved across the country for him only to have him turn on her when she arrived. He kept all the people in his life separate so I of course took his side. Throughout all this I found myself falling in love with him I know how stupid I must sound, but remember he is the most charming, manipulating man I’ve ever known. I always felt like our relationship was deeper than a friendship. I thought I was crazy for so long but realized him giving me false hope kept me where he wanted me. He always called me baby, sweetie, ect. There was also never personal space with us. We always stood and sat close, touching arms and hugging. He even, on several occasions, came up behind me when I was cooking or working on something in a very sexual position. I always felt like he was trying to get a reaction out of me. This was exactly how he planned it. He gave me false hope and I showered him with attention, gifts, and did everything a girlfriend would do. We just were not intimate. When I finally told him I needed more he gave me this big speech about how much he loved and cherished me and a relationship would ruin it. Heart broken I started writing down all the lies and red flags. When I got to 70, I realized everything about our relationship was a lie. I even realized he never asked me questions. Every conversation somehow revolved around him. When I confronted him about the lies he cut me off completely and hasn’t spoken to me since. I should be relieved, but I still am crushed. I am a smart, educated woman who should know better, but I fell for it hook, line, and sinker. I have survived worse becoming a widow and single mother at 39, but I have never had someone treat me this way and i’m afraid I have lost trust in people. The scary thing is I know he could manipulate his way back into my life at any moment.

  10. Renay

    One more thing. In your article Dave, you mentioned lying for no reason. That’s what kills me! He made up elaborate lies when there was no reason. One time I was out of town and he made up this big story about emergencies at work and the stress he was under. It was 4th of July weekend, and last minute got to go camping. Even texted me saying he was in a small town on his way back up to the campsite. He was on vacation in another state with his fiancé who he supposedly had been broken up with for months! He claims he lied because of my reaction when he still did things with her. There is no way I could have ever known she went, so why the big work/camping lie? He also lied by omission like leaving out the small detail he had a child. He casually told me 9 months after I knew him & said I never really asked. The lies are endless from his age, to whereabouts, to family, relationships, too many to keep track of. Shouldn’t he be exhausted keeping up with the lies? And why do I still care?
    I also think he hates women but loves the control he has over us. He has often be mistaken as being gay. I think he loves attention from men and women. He doesnt seem to be interested in sex, I think he hates any kind of real intimacy and sees sex as a way for others to adore him, nothing more.
    I guess I feel so betrayed by someone I let into my life at a very vulnerable time. It’s very difficult knowing the happiness I felt with him was all a lie and I meant absolutely nothing to him. I have to accept it had nothing to do with me and move on

    • Onward

      Renay, you have identified that you are dealing with a manipulative, controlling, seductive spirit. Keep that in the forefront of your mind when he approaches again. Use this blog as a reminder. However, not all people are like that. Allow yourself to cycle through your many emotions honestly as you work through this. Do not beat yourself up because you were vulnerable to another and because you felt. God made us that way. Do not allow the pride of who you are to condemn you in this matter but also do not believe that you have the power to control any element other than your own response. Attraction to an abusive person can and does happen to the best of us. God bless you, stay strong, and run from this entanglement. I speak to you as a fellow survivor.

      • Renay

        Thank you so much. I am still shocked at the emotions I am going through. It’s difficult to explain to friends when they all have the same reaction of, “You should be glad he’s gone!” I know this, but I am still depressed. He is now telling me, through texts, I am delusional. I think this is to get a reaction out of me, but he manipulated me for so long I start to question myself. I get stronger by the day and know god has a plan for me. Just wish he’d let me in on it. 🙂
        Thanks again

      • Carolyn

        Renay, I went through the same things with my ex-N…it would vacillate from him calling me vile names, putting me down, telling lies about me….to him leaving me flowers outside my front door. The best way to handle this is to go No Contact if that is possible for your situation. It took me months to learn it, but every time I saw his text or email…it set me back. He has a keen ability to mess with my heart and my head. So for my own well-being, I needed to keep him from doing that in whatever way I could. I blocked his emails, blocked his call, his texts etc. It has helped clear the crazy push and pull feelings I kept having. I pray this will help you too. Praying for all of us who are still struggling with this – and SO thankful for all of you as well. It is very affirming to be able to share our burdens with other Christians.

  11. UnForsaken

    Onward, couldn’t agree more. My heart aches for Everyone who endures a lie relationship! My N had honesty hammered into him, but I’ve learned the Damage that is done by insinuation, tone of voice, disapproval, and when he lies to himself first. “Point of view”, but I’m not allowed another one .

  12. rockybullwinkleandme

    Thankyou THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU THANKYOU
    There is so much more I can say but honestly all that needs to be said is THANKYOU – THANKYOU for belonging to God and for following his lead to write your blog and bout that topic of N people. A friendship that I thought was true and steadfast has ended and left me feeling like a pile of laundry ignored in the corner. My hurt is mostly due to her inability to apologise, her seemingly being delighted in obviously offending people then acting all “well I’m just being honest” when someone confronts her and says “hey that’s not cool what you said hurt me/them”. It’s a twisted relationship with a Nars person cos its not ALL bad – the times they are there for you (even though it serves them to be) makes one believe it’s caring but there’s always this look of “no real emotion”. You only see it when it’s over. I felt the Lord say gently to me last night whilst over thinking the whole thing “let her go, just let go”. And I felt His peace and love which thankfully surpasses all understanding. I am learning that my open heart needs to be little more discerning making friendships. I just always believe the best in people and am always so shocked when that let me down. But no one is perfect – we all have faults and with this we can extend how grace to everyone but guard our hearts at the same time too. Thank you for your wonderful way of communicating – bless your cotton socks ! Jesus rocks!

    • Carolyn

      Rocky – I agree 100% with your comments about needing to guard our hearts better. I grew up (and still struggle with) always believing the best in people…that I COULD trust someone without them first proving to be trust-worthy. It has taken me until now (55 years old) to see the danger in that.
      In reading not only this blog, but many others on the internet…I feel that many of the “supplies” that are chosen by N’s are Christian people. I am sure that we look very good to them for our long suffering, being able to forgive, faithfulness, and our ability to BELIEVE them. Even when I was KNEW by seeing all the facts that he was lying to me…I still chose to believe his version of the truth. Thankfully, that wore thin but it did take a number of years and incredible love and support from my family and friends to make me truly see things how they really were.
      It saddens me a bit to think that I have to change “me” in order to protect my heart from people who will use and abuse that. But all throughout the Bible, we are told to use good judgment, what for the “fruit” that is produced. I am finally getting it and understand why it is vital.

  13. UnForsaken

    Rockybullwinkleandme, Carolyn, WoW……to be Able to choose you’re own friends is a gift from God! I was raised in what felt like a network of fear, but expected to have your generous attitude. Yes, friendship takes perception and courage and knowing how to share what you want to share and how Not to share what you don’t . Blessings on your way!!!!!

  14. Onward

    The “change” required for us is to become stronger and wiser. Carolyn, I identify with what you are saying and I had to find the verse that told me to guard my heart. I found it in Proverbs 4 and so much more. I would encourage you to read the chapter in its entirety. While Proverb 4 begins by commanding us to get wisdom and understanding for a longer, quality life, midway thru verses 14 – 19 warns us about avoiding the path of the wicked and the way of evil men. The chapter then returns to its theme of walking in wisdom and verse 23 speaks of keeping or guarding our hearts. I struggled with why God would allow me to encounter such evil when my desire, like other believers, is to have a heart like His. My battle is to keep my heart pliable and sensitive to the Holy Spirit while my flesh tells me to harden it so that I will not be so easily wounded. In Mat 10:16 Jesus says he sends us forth as sheep in the midst of wolves and tells us to be wise as serpents and harmless as doves. James 1:5 tells us that if we lack wisdom, we are to ask God and he will freely and richly give it to us. (As an instrument of wisdom, I believe God gave us Pastor Dave and this blog. Thank you Jesus!)This is a spiritual war that we win through Christ. As we walk in this shared experience, we know it is no easy thing. However, if we allow it to work in our lives to bring us closer to our Father which strengthens and blesses us, we have gained. I pray that God allows us to survive and thrive and in so doing strengthen the body of Christ.

    • Repol

      Thank you, Onward. This is a valid expression of the tension between trying to be open to others and having to protect ourselves from the destruction of those we want to love. I still don’t have answers, and even knowing what I know now, I don’t think I would have entered in any differently. I would have assumed the best about the two people who have hurt me the most. I would have still tried to love them. But somewhere along the way, maybe I would have held on to my own dignity and not forgotten that God loves me and is for me, and not sacrificed that dignity to the gaslighting and abuse. I don’t know where I crossed the line into letting it become unhealthy, but somewhere I did and did a great violence to myself at that point.
      Thank you again. Your biblical support and acknowledgement of the tension is so helpful. I’m glad I’m not in this boat alone.

  15. UnForsaken

    Onward, your research is great….Thanks for quoting several of the verses which I was trying to remember! Matt.10:16 has always been a favorite but it took a some experience for me to understand. Paster Dave’s latest artical sums up the whole thing beautifully–Just keep your eyes on Jesus !

  16. E Raulerson

    First time reader here — I’ve lately suspicioned that I am ONE… Lies do come so easily to me and I often blow them off as just something funny I do. No harm, no foul.. Right? I don’t lie about important stuff but I often wondered WHY i do .. why they so easily trip off my tongue.. my sisters catch me at them all the time (we work together) and i just laugh it off.. they shake their heads. So what am i hiding? they know everything about me.. idk.

    • Fellow Survivor

      E Raulerson, when I was 15 my friends invited me to go water skiing with them. I asked my parents if it was OK and they said sure, “who is driving the boat” I told them my buddies “also 15 and 16 years old” were driving. Then they asked ” what adult is going to be there?” I told them its just me and my friends. They told me without an adult you can not go. I went anyway, with deception. They busted me and I was grounded for a week. The next week, my buddies asked if I wanted to go again. I said yes. THERE WERE 16 YEAR OLD GIRLS IN BIKINIS ON THIS TRIP. Anyway, I got busted again. I had a paddle on the wall with holes drilled in it. My father, with tears in his eyes made me grab the desk and he used that paddle on my behind.; Then he looked me square in the eye and told me ” Your mother and I can never trust a word you say from now on” Those words hurt a lot more than those 3 licks with the paddle. I am 53 years old now and I will never forget those words ” We can never trust a word that you say ever again” From that day forward I never lied to my parents again. I find it extremely difficult to lie to anyone now.

    • UnForsaken

      Lying is only a part of N. You might find help in Googling Compulsive and Pathological liers….anyway, take it seriously and get Help. Lying can be a symptom of some deeper need .Focus on what you know is Truth..it’s a good part of theropy. Reading Dave’s other articals has been a great director toward the thruth for me. But above all, get better and stay healthy ! You don’t want to hurt others further –or yourself!

    • E, as has been said, lying is just part of narcissism. There could be many reasons a person would lie often. There are psychological disorders where people cannot tell the truth. Some people get pleasure from making others look like fools, even if only to the liar. For some it provides a sense of power.

      My suggestion is that you investigate this further. It is not a profitable characteristic for close relationships. You might find that talking about it with a good counselor will lead to other helpful things. I will pray for you.

  17. Penny

    Q: “How do you know when the N is lying?”
    A: “When their lips are moving.”

    • Fellow Survivor

      Penny, or when they say “I love you”

      • Penny

        Their lips are moving then, too! Whether it’s “I love you, I need you, I want you, I pray for you, I blame you, I love God, I can’t live without you”…..it’s all the same thing: to hide the truth, build a false image, blame others, maintain control. As Pastor Dave said: the lies give them power & control, and even tho I can’t stop the lying, I CAN stop believing those lies, which means they no longer have power and control. Ta Da! When I finally understood it’s ALL lies, it took away their power, and they no longer had control over me. I DO have choices–not to change the N, but to change how I respond. Their lips are moving…..and I no longer believe a single word.

  18. UnForsaken

    Yes, Penny! Changing my thought patterns made a huge difference. It didn’t make it better, but I needed a comfidence and courage straight from God that has made it easier to bear. Notice how gratefull we become toward God – not some N who tells us they’re our Savior – when we begin to look to Him for a path and all our strength . He makes a way for us!

  19. Ashley

    My ex-husband & I attended several marital sessions with 2 different counselors before he filed for divorce last year. Both therapists have told me that he is a narcissist with sociopath traits and that I should be very careful around him.
    How do I approach the blatant lies that my ex-husband tells our son? It is a fine line between not disparaging him to his son and yet protecting others. For example, my ex-husband told our son that he couldn’t attend his birthday party because there were people there who didn’t like him. The reality is that my ex-husband cut out everyone in his life, including his own family, to continue his life of addiction and criminal behavior. But none of us have EVER said a disparaging word about him to our son, and we still all get together as a family. All I said to our son so far was that I was sorry his father said that, and that I know there are family members who actually do ask about his father and how he is doing and still love him. I told our son that I will never lie to him and that family members did ask if his father was coming to the party and if he had gone they would have been kind to him. I am so angry at my ex for putting his son in this position yet I know that my ex will never see it that way.

  20. Penny

    It doesn’t matter if your ex sees what he has done. You will never convince him & since Ns lack empathy, he won’t care anyway. Your goal is NOT to convince your ex of anything, or to protect your son from the truth, but rather to affirm your son and protect him as best you can from being scapegoated. Depending on the age of your son, there will come a time when you will need to expose your ex so your son does not internalize his Dad’s rejection as his fault. Sadly, this is a classic role reversal, where your son is the parent & Daddy-dearest is the poor pitiful victim who has no idea what he has done & why others dislike him. Your ex has shifted blame, and that cannot be allowed to stand. Your son is not responsible for the bad choices or behavior of his father. Being kind [to your ex] is one thing; being scapegoated is another. Don’t let your son (or anybody else) be scapegoated by the clever machinations of your ex. It sounds like you have a supportive caring family, so hopefully there is a surrogate-dad who can stand in the gap and assure your son that he is loved, valued & worthy. It is not your job to protect your ex from the natural consequences of his behavior. But it IS your job to raise your son knowing he is precious and loved by his Heavenly Father. That is the best birthday gift of all. Bless you and I will pray for you. .

    • Ashley

      Penny,
      Thank you for your reply. My son is 10. I did send a message to my ex, said that I was aware of his lie and that I found it sad he would attempt to pit our son against both of our families, who have never said a bad word about him in front of our son. I said that there would be many ceremonies (school events, graduation, a wedding) in our son’s future and that his decision of not attending any event is his own choice. I have come to realize that trying to talk rational to an irrational person is futile. When I try to ask him to stop what he is doing to our son, he sees no wrong in it. So now whatever I send I keep brief and just call out his actions ONLY for the purpose of legal documentation, as I will one day sue for full custody. And I won’t let the bullying continue. Yesterday I sent a follow up and said that I felt it was only fair to let our family members know what he said about them. Did the same thing when he told me our son was being seen by an incompetent physician. I had to take our son to an urgent care clinic and he criticized me for not taking our son to his provider, said the other Dr was probably not qualified! I told him I showed his text to the Dr just to ask if that was accurate, as I knew he would try to say I was being neglectful to our son.

  21. Penny

    You are doing great, Ashley. Good for you. I will pray for you and for your son as well. (I suppose I should also pray for your ex, but that is much harder…..)

    • Ashley

      Thank you Penny. My son & I say our goodnight prayers together every night and I include his father in our prayers. I just say “Please take care of dad.” I want to show my son that there is grace in forgiveness and that we still pray for our enemies (although I certainly never call him that).

  22. Hello, I am so blessed and grateful to come across this support from all of you. My story started 3 years ago. I failed into the wolves’ mouth. From the first day, I met this new co worker I felt attached instantly. She is charming to the tee. But I misinterpet her charm as the prayer answered to my salvation of my loneliness and low self-esteem . I instead believed she was my ” soul friend”. She played me and I believe her because she told me she was in a 17 year marriage were she was the victim. I soon discovered she was an alcoholic, gambler, smokers, and was in debt because of her additions.I supported her through “think and thin” emotionally and financially. So I found myself wanting to save her. Needless to say, she has since then divorced and within weeks, has found another mate. I am facing bankruptcy , but more importantly everything about my emotional, spiritual, and physical being is hurt and in pain because I believed in her friendship. I saw all the redflags, but I also saw her lost child and I identify with her. When I attempted to step away, she confessed she was “depressed and suicidal ” and I just knew it had to true because she had all the characteristic,(so I thought) to be. But now that she has found another victim and I have nothing for her to keep me as a friend. She no longer seek my company. I go in and out of feeling despair due to the rejection. I pray and plea for mercy that my God will on the spot remove the shame and the feelins of abandonement etc. It’s knowing I can run into her at work. Please continue to join me in prayer and in logic to steer away from such danger. Thank you for being here on this blod.

    • So sorry for your pain and sense of rejection. I understand. I understand being wooed into thinking you had found someone of kindred spirit, as you call a soul friend. I don’t understand how they do it, but they do. And it truly does hurt when it ends. How could it have been made up? But it was. I am sorry. I feel your pain.

  23. I know he lies.
    I’ve told my children, “Don’t repeat anything he says, and don’t base your opinions on others on his words either.” But, out of trying not to be disrespectful, just cautious, I haven’t pushed that with them hard. Now my oldest is getting old enough to interact in broader groups. What if she repeats slander? What if she gets labelled as slanderous because she believes his slander?

    Proof arrived today in the mail of one of the most recent lies. Even though I knew it, seeing it in ink, in black and white, just tore that wound right open again. I knew it was a lie, but I guess I still wanted to be wrong. I wanted to be convinced again that it was just a misunderstanding.

    But there’s an initiating date–two months after the promise there would never again be another personal debt–there it is. The promise was a lie. And then when the first payment notice arrived, he denied that it was new. Just told me that he forgot to tell me about that one. Said he had the mailing address changed from the PO box to the residence. Said it was old debt. But there it is: initiating date, first payment due. What was collateral? All it says here is “personal property itemized separately.” What of OUR personal property has been promised for his frivolous, deceptive spending?

    How can I live like this? The person I depend on most in the world is a perpetual liar. Promises mean nothing, and he will make up any story he can think of to get him out of the tight spot he put himself in every single time. How can I live like this? And is it righteousness to try to hold together a marriage union just because GOD says marriage ought not to be dissolved, when it means I tie myself and my children to his deception and slander in the world? Who knows who he has hurt with his lies besides just us? Who knows what he has said that damaged others. I didn’t do that, but if I’m married to him am I not implicit in it?

    Aaagh. I HATE lies.

    The truth is good enough. God says the truth will set us free. I want to be free! Can I be both free and righteous at the same time?

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